Can't wait to see the snow pile up of cars this year from all those great northern drivers,,,lol.....yep, chains are big there,,,not.
Experiences with installing chains?
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Originally Posted By: HangFire
Donald said:
Up in the mountains, there are licensed chain installers. I'm not sure how many there are now, but at one time there were about 400. They typically worked the main roads that tourists take - I-80 to Reno, US-50 to South Lake Tahoe, US-395, or to the major recreation areas like Mammoth, Big Bear, or Yosemite. They have to wear their license number in big numbers and basically charge a rate set by the state.
Here's an article:
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/19/local/me-chains19
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
Here's an article:
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/19/local/me-chains19
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Up in the mountains, there are licensed chain installers. I'm not sure how many there are now, but at one time there were about 400. They typically worked the main roads that tourists take - I-80 to Reno, US-50 to South Lake Tahoe, US-395, or to the major recreation areas like Mammoth, Big Bear, or Yosemite. They have to wear their license number in big numbers and basically charge a rate set by the state.
Here's an article:
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/19/local/m-chains19
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
That just sound like a really unpleasant way to make money. But $20 to install and $10 to uninstall has to rake in a good amount.
Up in the mountains, there are licensed chain installers. I'm not sure how many there are now, but at one time there were about 400. They typically worked the main roads that tourists take - I-80 to Reno, US-50 to South Lake Tahoe, US-395, or to the major recreation areas like Mammoth, Big Bear, or Yosemite. They have to wear their license number in big numbers and basically charge a rate set by the state.
Here's an article:
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/mar/19/local/m-chains19
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
That just sound like a really unpleasant way to make money. But $20 to install and $10 to uninstall has to rake in a good amount.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Can't wait to see the snow pile up of cars this year from all those great northern drivers,,,lol.....yep, chains are big there,,,not.
Chains are not popular anywhere, because no one likes mounting chains or paying the big bucks for chains that are easy (make that easier) to mount. Chain users are limited to skiers, rural/mountain dwellers, those required by law, and a few gearheads like myself.
Also I was not talking about a "snow pile up of cars", re-read my post. I'm talking about ice.
I have to explain this to every snooty Northerner the moment they hear I'm from Maryland, and start the old "Marylander's can't drive in snow" refrain.
Up North it stays frozen throughout Winter, until Spring Thaw.
In Western/North-Central Maryland we are on the rain/snow Mason/Dixon line.
We get Spring Thaw every afternoon after a snowstorm, and Black Ice every morning after a snow storm.
A Winter drive-time rain storm can turn into a Winter ice skating rink with a 1 degree change in temp.
If there's snow in the forecast I stay home. If it's raining in Jan/Feb I drive to work, and I bring the chains. I don't use them often, but they've been very useful the few times I've had to use them.
Can't wait to see the snow pile up of cars this year from all those great northern drivers,,,lol.....yep, chains are big there,,,not.
Chains are not popular anywhere, because no one likes mounting chains or paying the big bucks for chains that are easy (make that easier) to mount. Chain users are limited to skiers, rural/mountain dwellers, those required by law, and a few gearheads like myself.
Also I was not talking about a "snow pile up of cars", re-read my post. I'm talking about ice.
I have to explain this to every snooty Northerner the moment they hear I'm from Maryland, and start the old "Marylander's can't drive in snow" refrain.
Up North it stays frozen throughout Winter, until Spring Thaw.
In Western/North-Central Maryland we are on the rain/snow Mason/Dixon line.
We get Spring Thaw every afternoon after a snowstorm, and Black Ice every morning after a snow storm.
A Winter drive-time rain storm can turn into a Winter ice skating rink with a 1 degree change in temp.
If there's snow in the forecast I stay home. If it's raining in Jan/Feb I drive to work, and I bring the chains. I don't use them often, but they've been very useful the few times I've had to use them.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
True, but I disagree with your explanation. It's more straightforward explanation. Demand is down because it hasn't snowed for 3 seasons; and now being record settingly bad. It has been 70degrees in the bayarea in the middle of winter. So people think the mountains are either not covered or too crowded so don't head up.
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
True, but I disagree with your explanation. It's more straightforward explanation. Demand is down because it hasn't snowed for 3 seasons; and now being record settingly bad. It has been 70degrees in the bayarea in the middle of winter. So people think the mountains are either not covered or too crowded so don't head up.
Originally Posted By: raytseng
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
True, but I disagree with your explanation. It's more straightforward explanation. Demand is down because it hasn't snowed for 3 seasons; and now being record settingly bad. It has been 70degrees in the bayarea in the middle of winter. So people think the mountains are either not covered or too crowded so don't head up.
The LA Times article that made that assertion was from 2003, so they were describing general trends rather than strictly lack of demand based on a lack of snow.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Apparently one of the issues is that demand is down because more people are driving AWD vehicles that aren't required to have chains.
True, but I disagree with your explanation. It's more straightforward explanation. Demand is down because it hasn't snowed for 3 seasons; and now being record settingly bad. It has been 70degrees in the bayarea in the middle of winter. So people think the mountains are either not covered or too crowded so don't head up.
The LA Times article that made that assertion was from 2003, so they were describing general trends rather than strictly lack of demand based on a lack of snow.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
That just sound like a really unpleasant way to make money. But $20 to install and $10 to uninstall has to rake in a good amount.
A NY Times article from 2005 (where I found the photo) mentioned it was up to $30 then, but didn't say how much to remove. Another issue is that they're only allowed to install chains, but not sell them. They could probably make more if they were allowed to keep a nice selection in their vehicles for sale.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/14/your-money/14iht-mchain.html?_r=0
Now, when I bought my first set of tire cables, it was pretty pricey. I could basically only find one tire shop that hadn't warehoused its inventory in March and they wanted $44. Now on the way back (and before there would have been any chain checkpoints if they had been set up), I found similar cables for sale at about $25 to $30 at drug stores or supermarkets. You might be able to find them at auto-parts stores and some places like Wal-Mart around here during winter. Some other stuff may be harder to find - especially winter windshield washer fluid/deicer. Deicer in a spray bottle or can is easy to find, but not the stuff that goes in the washer fluid reservoir because of VOC concerns.
I can't find those ladder-type cables any more and I don't think they would be suitable for mixing up with Z-style cables. If I ever think I really need chains to crawl out in the worst conditions, then just on the fronts is going to have to do. I doubt they would necessarily damage the drivetrain any more than using a compact spare.
That just sound like a really unpleasant way to make money. But $20 to install and $10 to uninstall has to rake in a good amount.
A NY Times article from 2005 (where I found the photo) mentioned it was up to $30 then, but didn't say how much to remove. Another issue is that they're only allowed to install chains, but not sell them. They could probably make more if they were allowed to keep a nice selection in their vehicles for sale.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/14/your-money/14iht-mchain.html?_r=0
Now, when I bought my first set of tire cables, it was pretty pricey. I could basically only find one tire shop that hadn't warehoused its inventory in March and they wanted $44. Now on the way back (and before there would have been any chain checkpoints if they had been set up), I found similar cables for sale at about $25 to $30 at drug stores or supermarkets. You might be able to find them at auto-parts stores and some places like Wal-Mart around here during winter. Some other stuff may be harder to find - especially winter windshield washer fluid/deicer. Deicer in a spray bottle or can is easy to find, but not the stuff that goes in the washer fluid reservoir because of VOC concerns.
I can't find those ladder-type cables any more and I don't think they would be suitable for mixing up with Z-style cables. If I ever think I really need chains to crawl out in the worst conditions, then just on the fronts is going to have to do. I doubt they would necessarily damage the drivetrain any more than using a compact spare.
Here's how I install the chains--
--Lay them out at home, in the light and dry area.
--Note that there is an inner cable and outer cable or chain. Usually the end with the adjuster goes on the outside. Sometimes both are the same.
--Note that some attachmets between the circumferential chains or cables and the cross chains or cable might have a relatively sharp edge. These go away from the rubber.
--Put the chain over the left drive tire from the top, getting it the right lay out and the right rotation--you want any excess length to be pointing to the back of the car with it is at the top of the wheel. Pull the end of the chains under the tire as far as you can pull it.
--Drive forward a few inches so the chain gap is not at about the 4
'clock position, (and for FWD turn the wheels hard right so the chain gap is more exposed for you to work on.
--Connect the inner link in the longest connector.
--Pull hard on the chains, all around, to get out more slack that you even think is there. Connect the outer connector as tightly as you can.
--Repeat on the other side.
--Drive forward to the farthest end of the chain-up area, stop, roll until you can get to the ends of the chain. Tighten as much as you can.
--When you pack the chains away, be sure you also pack a good flashlight, gloves, something waterproof to lay on. You'll always have to put chains on in the dark, in an inch of water, under six inches of slush.
--Lay them out at home, in the light and dry area.
--Note that there is an inner cable and outer cable or chain. Usually the end with the adjuster goes on the outside. Sometimes both are the same.
--Note that some attachmets between the circumferential chains or cables and the cross chains or cable might have a relatively sharp edge. These go away from the rubber.
--Put the chain over the left drive tire from the top, getting it the right lay out and the right rotation--you want any excess length to be pointing to the back of the car with it is at the top of the wheel. Pull the end of the chains under the tire as far as you can pull it.
--Drive forward a few inches so the chain gap is not at about the 4
'clock position, (and for FWD turn the wheels hard right so the chain gap is more exposed for you to work on.--Connect the inner link in the longest connector.
--Pull hard on the chains, all around, to get out more slack that you even think is there. Connect the outer connector as tightly as you can.
--Repeat on the other side.
--Drive forward to the farthest end of the chain-up area, stop, roll until you can get to the ends of the chain. Tighten as much as you can.
--When you pack the chains away, be sure you also pack a good flashlight, gloves, something waterproof to lay on. You'll always have to put chains on in the dark, in an inch of water, under six inches of slush.
stereotype much?
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Chains are not popular anywhere, because no one likes mounting chains or paying the big bucks for chains that are easy (make that easier) to mount. Chain users are limited to skiers, rural/mountain dwellers, those required by law, and a few gearheads like myself.
Also I was not talking about a "snow pile up of cars", re-read my post. I'm talking about ice.
I have to explain this to every snooty Northerner the moment they hear I'm from Maryland, and start the old "Marylander's can't drive in snow" refrain.
Up North it stays frozen throughout Winter, until Spring Thaw.
In Western/North-Central Maryland we are on the rain/snow Mason/Dixon line.
We get Spring Thaw every afternoon after a snowstorm, and Black Ice every morning after a snow storm.
A Winter drive-time rain storm can turn into a Winter ice skating rink with a 1 degree change in temp.
If there's snow in the forecast I stay home. If it's raining in Jan/Feb I drive to work, and I bring the chains. I don't use them often, but they've been very useful the few times I've had to use them.
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Chains are not popular anywhere, because no one likes mounting chains or paying the big bucks for chains that are easy (make that easier) to mount. Chain users are limited to skiers, rural/mountain dwellers, those required by law, and a few gearheads like myself.
Also I was not talking about a "snow pile up of cars", re-read my post. I'm talking about ice.
I have to explain this to every snooty Northerner the moment they hear I'm from Maryland, and start the old "Marylander's can't drive in snow" refrain.
Up North it stays frozen throughout Winter, until Spring Thaw.
In Western/North-Central Maryland we are on the rain/snow Mason/Dixon line.
We get Spring Thaw every afternoon after a snowstorm, and Black Ice every morning after a snow storm.
A Winter drive-time rain storm can turn into a Winter ice skating rink with a 1 degree change in temp.
If there's snow in the forecast I stay home. If it's raining in Jan/Feb I drive to work, and I bring the chains. I don't use them often, but they've been very useful the few times I've had to use them.
Y_p_w
You sound like a very prudent fellow and doing a lot of googling and preparing.
But in this case you're over thinking it. All the stuff you are talking about miis well stocked at all the gas stations approaching the passes and every tahoe supermarket by the pallet. Everyone has a smartphone to check conditions and theres even a twitter feed. If your cellphone is forgotten there are signs starting in sac letting you know if chain controls are up. You dont need to overprepare. Its like prebuying a sunscreen in alaska before going to hawaii. You are paying too much by buying in a location with no demand.
You also dont need to refer to a 11year article targetted for LA readers of all people and released before the first iphone even came out.
I'm just saying as the OP who started the thread looking for advice it seems you already have all the answers. but my question is have you put on your chains yet.
<-- goes to tahoe every other weekend during ski season and specifically during storms
You sound like a very prudent fellow and doing a lot of googling and preparing.
But in this case you're over thinking it. All the stuff you are talking about miis well stocked at all the gas stations approaching the passes and every tahoe supermarket by the pallet. Everyone has a smartphone to check conditions and theres even a twitter feed. If your cellphone is forgotten there are signs starting in sac letting you know if chain controls are up. You dont need to overprepare. Its like prebuying a sunscreen in alaska before going to hawaii. You are paying too much by buying in a location with no demand.
You also dont need to refer to a 11year article targetted for LA readers of all people and released before the first iphone even came out.
I'm just saying as the OP who started the thread looking for advice it seems you already have all the answers. but my question is have you put on your chains yet.
<-- goes to tahoe every other weekend during ski season and specifically during storms
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Originally Posted By: raytseng
Y_p_w
You sound like a very prudent fellow and doing a lot of googling and preparing.
But in this case you're over thinking it. All the stuff you are talking about miis well stocked at all the gas stations approaching the passes and every tahoe supermarket by the pallet.
The truth is that I like a good discussion on BITOG, especially the banter from people from different parts of the country about weather and road conditions from their neck of the woods.
As for what I've bought before - that was my first attempt to drive in the snow back in March 2005, and I wasn't sure where I might find chains. I wanted to be sure that I could find what I needed. What I did find out was that I could have gone into Longs Drugs in Pollock Pines and they had plenty of basic ladder cables for $28 in my size. I got my Super Z6 cables on Amazon and paid a pretty cheap price. I've actually seen them in stock around here. A tire shop charged about $90, and I'm not even sure how much they were at Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley. And yeah - I'm probably going to try installing them on my driveway this weekend to get a feel for them. It's not even that I think I'll ever need them, but I'd simply like to do it for the experience.
Y_p_w
You sound like a very prudent fellow and doing a lot of googling and preparing.
But in this case you're over thinking it. All the stuff you are talking about miis well stocked at all the gas stations approaching the passes and every tahoe supermarket by the pallet.
The truth is that I like a good discussion on BITOG, especially the banter from people from different parts of the country about weather and road conditions from their neck of the woods.
As for what I've bought before - that was my first attempt to drive in the snow back in March 2005, and I wasn't sure where I might find chains. I wanted to be sure that I could find what I needed. What I did find out was that I could have gone into Longs Drugs in Pollock Pines and they had plenty of basic ladder cables for $28 in my size. I got my Super Z6 cables on Amazon and paid a pretty cheap price. I've actually seen them in stock around here. A tire shop charged about $90, and I'm not even sure how much they were at Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley. And yeah - I'm probably going to try installing them on my driveway this weekend to get a feel for them. It's not even that I think I'll ever need them, but I'd simply like to do it for the experience.
Originally Posted By: HangFire
I have to explain this to every snooty Northerner the moment they hear I'm from Maryland, and start the old "Marylander's can't drive in snow" refrain.
Up North it stays frozen throughout Winter, until Spring Thaw.
It took me a while to realize how good we have it up here. You're right, it is a benefit, once it gets cold it tends to stay cold, and less of the slush/ice stuff. Downside is of course that winter lasts much much longer.
*
I've contemplated chains a time or two, but seems like a lot of work to install and remove. Not required around here it seems for any condition short of roads being closed. Too bad snow tires wear fast; what would be nice is a snow tire that, once half worn, becomes a summer tire *that isn't loud*.
I have to explain this to every snooty Northerner the moment they hear I'm from Maryland, and start the old "Marylander's can't drive in snow" refrain.
Up North it stays frozen throughout Winter, until Spring Thaw.
It took me a while to realize how good we have it up here. You're right, it is a benefit, once it gets cold it tends to stay cold, and less of the slush/ice stuff. Downside is of course that winter lasts much much longer.
*
I've contemplated chains a time or two, but seems like a lot of work to install and remove. Not required around here it seems for any condition short of roads being closed. Too bad snow tires wear fast; what would be nice is a snow tire that, once half worn, becomes a summer tire *that isn't loud*.
Originally Posted By: supton
*
I've contemplated chains a time or two, but seems like a lot of work to install and remove. Not required around here it seems for any condition short of roads being closed. Too bad snow tires wear fast; what would be nice is a snow tire that, once half worn, becomes a summer tire *that isn't loud*.
It looks like it is a lot of work to remove and install. Once you done it a few times, it's not really that difficult (unless you're stuck in deep snow, and then you decide to put on the chains), if you don't have an automatic tensioning chain, then you go out an initially recheck the tension.
"Performance" winter tires aren't that bad in the summer. Basically, I'm using my performance winter tires this summer to fully wear them out before I buy replacements. My nexen winguard sport isn't too loud.... I've had all-season tires that were a lot louder.
of course, when the heavier density siping is still there... you give traction in the white stuff compared to the "studless snow & ice" tires.
some of the original blizzaks were the combo of multicell tube & all-season compounds
*
I've contemplated chains a time or two, but seems like a lot of work to install and remove. Not required around here it seems for any condition short of roads being closed. Too bad snow tires wear fast; what would be nice is a snow tire that, once half worn, becomes a summer tire *that isn't loud*.
It looks like it is a lot of work to remove and install. Once you done it a few times, it's not really that difficult (unless you're stuck in deep snow, and then you decide to put on the chains), if you don't have an automatic tensioning chain, then you go out an initially recheck the tension.
"Performance" winter tires aren't that bad in the summer. Basically, I'm using my performance winter tires this summer to fully wear them out before I buy replacements. My nexen winguard sport isn't too loud.... I've had all-season tires that were a lot louder.
of course, when the heavier density siping is still there... you give traction in the white stuff compared to the "studless snow & ice" tires.
some of the original blizzaks were the combo of multicell tube & all-season compounds
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Originally Posted By: Rand
stereotype much?
No, I don't. Only a subset of Northerners feel the need to go off about Maryland drivers in snow. Many are intelligent enough to understand what I just elaborated on, the greater number of freeze/thaw cycles, and need no education from me (like supton for example).
stereotype much?
No, I don't. Only a subset of Northerners feel the need to go off about Maryland drivers in snow. Many are intelligent enough to understand what I just elaborated on, the greater number of freeze/thaw cycles, and need no education from me (like supton for example).
When it gets wet and icy, or even warm (32 degrees) then everything struggles. On wet ice, on a warm day there's just no traction.
I'd rather deal with a 3' snow storm than any ice at all.
I'd rather deal with a 3' snow storm than any ice at all.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
some of the original blizzaks were the combo of multicell tube & all-season compounds
I remember going over this before. It was multicell when new and blended into a base of the traditional winter compound when worn.
some of the original blizzaks were the combo of multicell tube & all-season compounds
I remember going over this before. It was multicell when new and blended into a base of the traditional winter compound when worn.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
When it gets wet and icy, or even warm (32 degrees) then everything struggles. On wet ice, on a warm day there's just no traction.
I'd rather deal with a 3' snow storm than any ice at all.
Studs will work. Maybe even chains, but those conditions mean riding on chains over dry or merely damp pavement, which will chew up chains quickly.
When it gets wet and icy, or even warm (32 degrees) then everything struggles. On wet ice, on a warm day there's just no traction.
I'd rather deal with a 3' snow storm than any ice at all.
Studs will work. Maybe even chains, but those conditions mean riding on chains over dry or merely damp pavement, which will chew up chains quickly.
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
some of the original blizzaks were the combo of multicell tube & all-season compounds
I remember going over this before. It was multicell when new and blended into a base of the traditional winter compound when worn.
some of the original blizzaks were the multicell/all-season.
later, more current ones are multicell with a high-silica winter compound underneath.
(with the exception of "performance" winter... they are just a high silica winter compound)
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
some of the original blizzaks were the combo of multicell tube & all-season compounds
I remember going over this before. It was multicell when new and blended into a base of the traditional winter compound when worn.
some of the original blizzaks were the multicell/all-season.
later, more current ones are multicell with a high-silica winter compound underneath.
(with the exception of "performance" winter... they are just a high silica winter compound)
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