Entry level audiophile turntables. Looking- Help!

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Hermann

Hermann

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Been looking at turntables in the $400 to $500 range. The brands I'm lookingat are Rega RP1, Music Hall MMf 2.2, Pro-Ject Debut III, and have pretty much ruled out Thorens in this range. They don't get good reviews until you spend a grand or so. I like what I see in quality and the build quality, but in this range the supplied cartridge seems to leave a bit to be desired.

My current TT is a 20 year old Technics Linear Track with a Audio Technica 6006 Studio Reference Series cartridge.

What will be the main benefits of moving Up so to speak. I can get the Music Hall 2.2 for a bit less than $400. What I am expecting to gain is better isolation from vibration, and less harshness in the sound.

If anyone has one of these tables in this range, your feedback would be appreciated.
 
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I can't help you with your search, but I lol'd at your post title. Entry level audiophile turntable sounds like an oxymoron at first, but I guess there actually are very nice sounding ones. Good luck with your search!
 
What was the difference between moving magnet and moving coil cartridges? I remember Denon making a VERY expensive MC cartridge in the early 80s.

Also which is better,an eliptical stylus or a spherical one?
 
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You can get a fairly decent belt-drive tt such as Project or Music Hall are fine.

eliptical stylus will perform better than spherical one, esp. on high frequency reproduction and distortion (spherical ones have more HF distortion due to nature of the profile/design).

MM cart is as basic as you can get. while MC is supposedly better in HF frequency reproduction and channel separation, trouble is, it's very finicky to load and typical low output MC cart require a very good quality MC step up trannie in order to get it to sing.

All in all, MC cart will work out to be more expensive than a very decent MM cart (IMHO, of course, YMMV), while all other things being equal. Also: if you ave a mid-fi turntable, always go with MM cart designed for medium mass tonearm. Don't play silly by going with MC carts and/or MM cart designed for low mass (you are begging for trouble on that one).

My all time fave has always been Ortofon OM series (OM10 or higher). Alternatively, I also like Grado MM carts but they tend to be a bit too warm/fuzzy sounding to me at times. Not a big fan of shure (been through over 20 yrs with Shure MM carts, and it's time to let go); Excel, Ortofon MC carts or even Audio Technica are good to my ears.

Denon makes 103 which can be had fairly cheep (less than 250USD nowadays, on ePrey). Again: unless you have some seriously good tonearm + turntable, otherwise: IMHO you aren't gonna get the best out of it.

Q.
 
I recommend the rp1 wholeheartedly.

I had one for 2 months. Sounded great but my particular tt had some low level motor noise that bothered me between songs. My dealer let me exchange for a p3-24 w elys cartridge and it sounds fantastic!

You may be able to find a good deal on a p3-24 since there is a replacement model out (rp3).

The projects are also nice, can't comment on the music hall versions.

Whatever you choose, try to find a local dealer who will let you audition at home.
 
Sorry I missed some of your questions with my first reply.

Rega will not give you any isolation from vibration. Roy Gandy's philosophy is lightweight, unsprung plinth and use a wall mount rack to isolate from footfalls, etc.

I think the more expensive Music Hall's offer a sprung suspension, not sure which Pro-Jects might. Jerry Raskins Needle Doctor is good website for Pro-Ject research.

As far as what will you gain with the new TT... hard to say. That's why I recommend a home audition; also be sure your phono section is up to snuff. Even the cheap ones today $150-200 (Musical Fidelity, Rotel) are pretty decent.
 
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Music Hall and Rega are excellent, very respected Turntables. Music Hall is a great brand, although i don't have a Music Hall TT, my integrated amplifier is a brilliant little piece of audio gear for its price...amazing build quality and minimalistic, with a very balanced sound - I am sure their TTs won't disappoint, even the entry level ones.
 
You probably know that the Music Hall tt's are made by Pro-Ject in their Czech factory, supposedly to Roy Hall' specs.

All the Rega's are still made in the UK.
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I can't help you with your search, but I lol'd at your post title. Entry level audiophile turntable sounds like an oxymoron at first, but I guess there actually are very nice sounding ones. Good luck with your search!


Most audiophiles will say a turntable sounds better than cd players.
 
Originally Posted By: mcrn
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I can't help you with your search, but I lol'd at your post title. Entry level audiophile turntable sounds like an oxymoron at first, but I guess there actually are very nice sounding ones. Good luck with your search!


Most audiophiles will say a turntable sounds better than cd players.


I won't say that, especially when compared objectively to super audio CD's.

However, my wife and I listened to an old PF Dark Side album a few years back. It was a back to back comparo of CD to Vinyl. There was information on the vinyl that was missing on the CD, including my wonderfully remastered DSOtM CD. Intentional? dunno. Advantage vinyl.

Also, if you can find a Pink Floyd Animals album in good shape, you will clearly find that it does sound better than the CD. By the time the CD's were made, the master tapes had degraded and, to reduce hiss, they reduced treble. The Animals CD sounds dull and flat. Where as the vinyl sounds clearer, if you can get over all the pops and crackles.
 
Yes indeed.

a properly set up belt-drive turntable with MM cartridge will still sound better (muscality, etc. overall) to regular CeeDees, with the exception of SACD (which I also have but SW is quickly beoming rather limited).

Also: as the original master becomes worn, sometimes, re-issue vinyl may sound worse than a re-issued CeeDee from the same master tape.

Some of my favourite vinyls for pops (can't beat regular CeeDee except Mofi versions or SACD re-release):

--SuperTramp: crime of the century
--SuperTramp: breakfast in america
--Sting : Nothing like the sun (try getting the true Mofi 1/2 speed twin vinyl version)
--Dire Straits: (pretty much most of them)

I have more but most others fall into different genre of music (jazz/fusion, classical, etc.)

For starters: try getting a Rega turntable, make sure you set it up on an absolutely flat/true platform (get a torpedo bubble gauge to verify), and then play it away...

Quest.
--
--PinkFloyd: pretty much all of them
--
 
I cant seem to find the article I read about a shootout between the Project Debut, Rega and Music Hall entry level TTs. Somehow I remember it was in AudioXpress. But here's one I could google up - I haven't read it though - http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/face-best-turntable-budget
and there are some articles comparing atleast two of those TTs here - http://www.needledoctor.com/New/Turntable-Reviews


Keep in mind there is a lot that can go wrong even with the best turntables - cartridge selection, preamp selection, setup, alignment, isolation - its a thin line between bliss and disaster for those who wish the Vinyl sound nirvana.
 
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finally received an upgrade replacement needle for my Ortofon VMS3E (now upgraded to VMS15XE MkII), on my Yamaha mi-fi turntable (my Linn is in storage due to safety reasons), and boy! was I impressed!

The micro-dynamics and details are there, and the imaging is much, much better: tried CBS masterworks Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (by Bruno Walter, LP reissue), and boy! the violins are really what they should sound like. My VMS3E, by comparison, sounded dull and lifeless after serving the same cartridge for over 30+ yrs (time to retire...)

Also tried Carol King's Tapestry (1970 or 71 release? dunno recall) and it took me to a different dimension...

Yeah, technology may have been progressing but in terms of LP: 40+ yrs old record still sounds very, very good ...even some 1/2 century old RCA monos sounded very, very realistic indeed.

If only I can find some fresh new stock fine-line nude elliptical replacement needle for my VMS cartridge (mine is over 35 yrs old) or even fitz-gyger II profile needles then I'll be in vinyl heaven.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Hermann
Been looking at turntables in the $400 to $500 range. The brands I'm lookingat are Rega RP1, Music Hall MMf 2.2, Pro-Ject Debut III, and have pretty much ruled out Thorens in this range. They don't get good reviews until you spend a grand or so. I like what I see in quality and the build quality, but in this range the supplied cartridge seems to leave a bit to be desired.

. . .

If anyone has one of these tables in this range, your feedback would be appreciated.


Jumping in on this one late, but at that price point, look at an older heavy Thorens, a TD-125 or 126 (the 124 is only for the hard-core Thorens collector). As long as the bearing has not been abused, you can update/upgrade the arm and platter and have a deck competitive with new models in the $3-5,000 range. All of the new models you mentioned are entry-level and none have core mechanicals competitive with those old classics.

The 24-bit stuff gets mighty close, but nothing still matches a quality vinyl deck running though a great old classic tubed pre.
 
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