Ebola Information

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
It's not. You're wrong.
But I will let it rest. (only to save thread from lock, not because anything else)


And in the face of brand new info and continuously conflicting information from the CDC you STILL feel the same way?


I don't! Given the revelations from the nurses union that nursing staff has no protocol for dealing with ebola patients in the US, there seems to be no coordination, no leadership etc. Any nurse who worked on the initial patient in Dallas should have been quarantined.

If anyone gets sick who was on that flight from Cleveland to Dallas, the cat is officially out of the bag. They will have to stop all air travel and do a forensic investigation of everyone on that plane, where they are now, where they've been etc.

 

[friendly_jacek]

some interesting developments:

Quote:
— Duncan was kept in a non-isolated area of the emergency department for several hours, potentially exposing up to seven other patients to Ebola;

— Patients who may have been exposed to Duncan were kept in isolation only for a day before being moved to areas where there were other patients;

— Nurses treating Duncan were also caring for other patients in the hospital;

— Preparation for Ebola at the hospital amounted to little more than an optional seminar for staff;

— In the face of constantly shifting guidelines, nurses were allowed to follow whichever ones they chose.

“There was no advance preparedness on what to do with the patient, there was no protocol, there was no system,” Burger said.

Even today, Burger said, some hospital staff at the Dallas hospital do not have proper equipment to handle the outbreak.

Also,

“-Supervisors walked in and out of Duncan’s isolation room without proper protective gear.


And now we know there was no real quarantine of the contacts and people were free to fly planes.

This is bio-safety level 4 disease and CDC still has only universal precautions on their website as the official Ebola guidelines. I just checked.

My head is spinning. We knew about Ebola for months and did nothing to stop it from spreading WITHIN USA. This is a huge travesty. Any poor country (outside Africa) would have done a better job health policy wise.

My fear is terrorists could be learning from all those mistakes.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
We're now being told that #2 flew with a low grade fever.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/ebola-patient-traveled-day-before-diagnosis/

Once she recovers, she needs to needs to answer for that. Even if NO ONE on that plane gets sick, a year in jail sounds about right.

To travel by air within the 21 day incubation period is irresponsible beyond belief. She needs to get a clue.


Agreed.

It seems like the people who need to be most concerned about it are often in denial about how serious this is.

Initially it started spreading rapidly in Africa because people thought that Ebola was a hoax, they were mad about being quarantined, they were mad that aid workers didn't want them performing traditional rituals that could spread the disease further, etc.

Then you have "patient zero," who really should have been quarantined while in Africa, but lied about being possibly exposed to it, and was able to get back into the US. Again, denial and not taking it seriously.

Then he gets back, and when he initially went to get healthcare, gets sent home because it's "just the flu." Why in the world a sick person who had just been in Africa was not immediately quarantined is just beyond comprehension. More idiotic, dangerous denial.

And then the hospital treats it like it's any other stomach bug, letting hazardous waste pile up, not equipping nurses and others with the proper protective gear, and not giving them any sort of instruction on how to deal with something this dangerous. Flat out irresponsible.

And then one of the nurses who gets exposed decides that taking an interstate commercial flight with a fever is a good idea. Lets just spread it around some more. Given she had a fever on the plane (even low grade), seems like it's certainly possible she was contagious at that point. She should have known better. More irresponsible denial. If people on that flight start getting sick, we are in real trouble...because that means she was contagious while walking around in an airport. Just great.

It seems like if people had been responsible, treated the disease seriously, and not traveled all over the freaking place knowing they could be carrying it (but in denial), we wouldn't even be dealing with it in the US now. It keeps spreading because people keep screwing up. That's not acceptable with something like this.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Quote:
Biosafety level 4

This level is required for work with dangerous and exotic agents that pose a high individual risk of aerosol-transmitted laboratory infections, agents which cause severe to fatal disease in humans for which vaccines or other treatments are not available, such as Bolivian and Argentine hemorrhagic fevers, Marburg virus, Ebola virus, Lassa virus, Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever, and various other hemorrhagic diseases. This level is also used for work with agents such as smallpox that are considered dangerous enough to require the additional safety measures, regardless of vaccination availability. When dealing with biological hazards at this level the use of a positive pressure personnel suit, with a segregated air supply is mandatory. The entrance and exit of a level four biolab will contain multiple showers, a vacuum room, an ultraviolet light room, and other safety precautions designed to destroy all traces of the biohazard. Multiple airlocks are employed and are electronically secured to prevent both doors from opening at the same time. All air and water service going to and coming from a biosafety level 4 (or P4) lab will undergo similar decontamination procedures to eliminate the possibility of an accidental release.

Agents with a close or identical antigenic relationship to biosafety level 4 agents are handled at this level until sufficient data are obtained either to confirm continued work at this level, or to work with them at a lower level.

Members of the laboratory staff have specific and thorough training in handling extremely hazardous infectious agents and they understand the primary and secondary containment functions of the standard and special practices, the containment equipment, and the laboratory design characteristics. They are supervised by qualified scientists who are trained and experienced in working with these agents. Access to the laboratory is strictly controlled by the laboratory director.

The facility is either in a separate building or in a controlled area within a building, which is completely isolated from all other areas of the building. A specific facility operations manual is prepared or adopted. Building protocols for preventing contamination often use negatively pressurized facilities, which, even if compromised, would severely inhibit an outbreak of aerosol pathogens.

Within work areas of the facility, all activities are confined to Class III biological safety cabinets, or Class II biological safety cabinets used with one-piece positive pressure personnel suits ventilated by a life support system.


At the same time we put a patient full of Ebola virus in a regular private hospital and expect young, fresh from school nurses, to care for them???

How absurd is that?

I thought bringing sick people from Africa to Atlanta was somewhat risky, but it turned out lucky. What happened in Dallas was more than reckless.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

If anyone gets sick who was on that flight from Cleveland to Dallas, the cat is officially out of the bag. They will have to stop all air travel and do a forensic investigation of everyone on that plane, where they are now, where they've been etc.


Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

Here's the thing about airborne transmission I have NOT heard anyone mention yet, neither here nor any talking heads on the news. Solid particles in the air. Here on BITOG we know all about filtration efficiency thresholds and how particles small enough can pass through the oil filter. So let's think about that same model with regard to the closed air supply environment on the typical airliner. Could it be possible that there are micron sized solid particles floating in the cabin air on a jet? Yes, very likely. Could these particles collide with aerosolized droplets from an infected person's cough or sneeze? Yes. Could the virus then ride the particle indefinitely and survive on it's surface for the period of time it has been shown ebola can survive on surfaces within a certain ambient temperature range? Probably. Could someone well out of range of the 3 - 4 feet that CDC says you have to be to get sneeze/cough liquid droplets on you, then have one or more of these particles with ebola on it settle on their eye, enter their nose and lungs (or mouth for mouth breathers...) and find fertile ground for hosting? Maybe. Depends on the quantity of particles in the air that are being recirculated by the aircraft's ventilation system that are small enough to pass through the filtration system, along with variables such as density of hosts (passengers) and length of exposure (length of the flight).

On a regional flight similar to the Frontier Air flight that the 2nd Dallas nurse took, the flight duration in combination with her (maybe) not coughing or sneezing probably means very low risk environment. But.... a long trans-Atlantic flight from West Africa with infected people on board who have tried to mask their symptoms to pass screening by dosing up on fever reducers like ibuprofen or acetaminophen prior to boarding (as has been rumored). That is something to think about from the tiny recirculating particle closed environment standpoint.

 

[Smokescreen]

On the Biosafety scale...the highest level is 4. It doesn't get anymore dangerous. Here is the PPE and environment required by the CDC as found on: http://www.cdc.gov/training/quicklearns/biosafety/

Class III BSC

Required Safety Equipment

A gas-tight sealed container that is designed to allow for the manipulation of objects, hazardous substances, or infectious disease agents. Class III BSCs have a HEPA filtered air supply and double HEPA filtered exhaust. They provide the ultimate protection for personnel, product, and the environment.

Positive Pressure Protective Suit

Highly specialized, totally encapsulating industrial protection garments worn only within special biocontainment or maximum containment (BSL-4) laboratory facilities. The positive pressure in the suit will force air to flow out if the suit is damaged.


Facility construction

The laboratory is in a separate building or in an isolated and restricted zone of the building.
The laboratory has dedicated supply and exhaust air, as well as vacuum lines and decontamination systems.


Note the liberal use of "HEPA" and "Vacuum". This caliber of protection leaves little to guess, the regular workers with this type of virus were trying to mitigate airborn potential. These workers aren't dealing with coughing sneezing human patients. They are dealing with a controlled environment, petri dishes, possibly a testing animal.

The number of normal city hospitals meeting this criteria....zero. Basically everyone interacting with Patient Zero was not protected...at all.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Yeah according to some, Fox news should have the best.
Just ignore CDC info.


+1 The sensationalism is crazy. It's definitely a concern, but I'd rather have the CDC than no CDC.

The CDC/NIH has been underfunded since 2003. What a surprise.

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
Yeah according to some, Fox news should have the best.
Just ignore CDC info.


+1 The sensationalism is crazy. It's definitely a concern, but I'd rather have the CDC than no CDC.

The CDC/NIH has been underfunded since 2003. What a surprise.



Of course quarantining someone with no symptoms would have been branded "gov't overreach"; it is not about actually solving the issue, it is about criticizing whatever strategy as the wrong thing to do.

 

[Merkava_4]

Here's an interesting statement:

"Two health workers who treated patient zero – Thomas Eric Duncan – have contracted the virus despite wearing full protective clothing, prompting questions as to whether the virus has gone airborne to some degree."

LINK

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Here's an interesting statement:

"Two health workers who treated patient zero – Thomas Eric Duncan – have contracted the virus despite wearing full protective clothing, prompting questions as to whether the virus has gone airborne to some degree."

LINK


Sorry, but that part is wrong. Hospital workers only use Biosafety level 2 protection (in the best case scenario). Ebola requires Biosafety level 4 protection. CDC should know better. The well paid CDC leaders and local public health officers turned out to be incompetent fools (surprise, surprise).

 

[Skid]

actually, "Health care workers treating Thomas Eric Duncan in a hospital isolation unit didn’t wear protective hazardous-material suits for two days until tests confirmed the Liberian man had Ebola — a delay that potentially exposed perhaps dozens of hospital workers to the virus, according to medical records."

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2014/...a-patient.html/

 

[buck91]

Has anybody heard what happened to the EMS crew who transported Duncan after the initial quarantine?

 

[Smokescreen]

The CDC isn't even following its own protocols for minimizing risk:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"The day before she went to the hospital with Ebola symptoms, Amber Vinson was flying halfway across the country on a commercial jet with 132 other people. CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden said she never should have stepped foot on the flight, but another federal official told CNN that no one at the agency stopped her. Before flying from Cleveland to Dallas on Monday, Vinson called the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to report an elevated temperature of 99.5 Fahrenheit and informed the agency that she was getting on a plane, the official said. She wasn't told not to board the aircraft, the official said."


"The CDC guidance in this setting outlines the need for what is called controlled movement. That can include a charter plane, a car, but it does not include public transport," Frieden said. "We will from this moment forward ensure that no other individual who is being monitored for exposure undergoes travel in any way other than controlled movement."


...from this time forward?

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted By: buck91
Has anybody heard what happened to the EMS crew who transported Duncan after the initial quarantine?


http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/Dallas...-277675341.html

"The Dallas Fire-Rescue ambulance crew who transported the man infected with Ebola to the hospital have tested negative for the Ebola virus, according to the City of Dallas."

The team is in quarantine and so is the ambulance.

 

[GaleHawkins]

That is good news.

 

[Merkava_4]

How are you guys going to react when the first Ebola case hits your hometown?

Will you start taking any additional precautions?

 

[Merkava_4]

Survivalist Author James Wesley Rawles was saying on the Alex Jones radio show that if this epidemic gets too far out of hand, the retail industry might collapse because people will be too afraid to go out and shop.

 

[Merkava_4]

Some people think Ebola has gone airborne already:


Ebola is airborne, according to a new report by the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) at the University of Minnesota. Researchers at the university just advised the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) that “scientific and epidemiologic evidence” now exists that proves Ebola has the potential to be transmitted via exhaled breath and “infectious aerosol particles.”

The University of Minnesota report goes on to note that any action which can be taken to “reduce risk” of Ebola exposure should not wait until a “scientific certainty” develops. “The minimum level of protection in high-risk settings should be a respirator with an assigned protection factor greater than 10. A powered air-purifying respirator (PAPR) with a hood or helmet offers many advantages over an N95 filtering facepiece or similar respirator, being more protective, comfortable, and cost-effective in the long run,” the CIDRAP report also adds.

LINK

 

[Shannow]

http://zeitgeist77.wordpress.com/2014/08...n-sierra-leone/

 

[Merkava_4]

Smokescreen,

You might wanna read this link:


"The information I'm about to present here is frightening. There's really no way around that. However, I request that you do your very best to maintain a calm state of mind.

Right now in West Africa the worst Ebola outbreak in history is in full swing and is jumping borders at an alarming rate. Already it has spread to four countries, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone and now Nigeria. This latest jump into Nigeria is particularly serious since the infected individual carried the virus by plane to Lagos Nigeria, a city with a population of over 21 million. Doctors without borders has referred to the outbreak as "out of control".

To make matters worse, there is something very, very important that the corporate media and public health officials are not telling you regarding this crisis.

You'll notice if you read virtually any mainstream article on the topic that they make a point of insisting that Ebola is only transferred by physical contact with bodily fluids. This is not true, at all.

A study conducted in 2012 showed that Ebola was able to travel between pigs and monkeys that were in separate cages and were never placed in direct contact.

Though the method of transmission in the study was not officially determined, one of the scientists involved, Dr. Gary Kobinger, from the National Microbiology Laboratory at the Public Health Agency of Canada, told BBC News that he believed that the infection was spread through large droplets that were suspended in the air.
"What we suspect is happening is large droplets; they can stay in the air, but not long; they don't go far," he explained. "But they can be absorbed in the airway, and this is how the infection starts, and this is what we think, because we saw a lot of evidence in the lungs of the non-human primates that the virus got in that way."

Translation: Ebola IS an airborne virus. (as is annotated in the video and below, I am using this term in the layman's sense as TRAVELS THROUGH AIR)"

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