E-10 Fuel Debate - As per Huskey

[StevieC]

This is from Huskey (Gas Station we have in Canada) they get their fuel from Suncor and this is their response to E-10 as posted on their website.

I thought it was a good summary so I would post it here...

Quote:


Q: What about mileage? I've heard I'll have to use more ethanol-blended fuel compared to regular unleaded to go the same distance.

A: It's true that ethanol-blended fuel has approximately 2/3 of the energy of conventional gasoline. Fuel economy may decrease by approximately 1-2% which is not enough to be detected by the average driver. Some newer vehicles have fuel injection computers that detect the oxygen in ethanol and interpret this to mean the engine is running with a lean fuel mixture. As a result, the computer adds more fuel to compensate, which can affect fuel mileage somewhat.



Source: http://www.myhusky.ca/you/fuel/ethanol_blended_fuel/ethanol_faqs.html

 

[bepperb]

This is for E85, not E10, otherwise the math in the first sentence would be wrong. Or, the person writing is just throwing around numbers. But you can't take gas, add 10% of anything, and have the energy content be less than 90% of what you started with. Then again, E85 would yield a much larger difference in fuel economy than 1~2%.

I wouldn't take the more interesting comment about new 02 sensors as fact given their inability to do math in the first part of the answer. Or maybe the conservation of energy law doesn't apply above 49 degrees?

 

[StevieC]

We don't have E-85 in Ontario it's for E-10 See their website...

Besides I didn't post it for the math, just for the explanation for poorer mileage.

 

[Capa]

E-10 loss in comparison to 100% gas is between 3-5% as per Car & Driver and Consumer Reports as well as other publications. E-85 is probably in the 30-40%. Avoid it like the plague if you can.

 

[rclint]

It may be a far stretch on poorer mileage, I have not seen much of an impact if any on the 10% ethanol fuels.. Also as mentioned above 10% of anything added to the fuel will cause a decline in energy received, this is still a far stretch because ethanol is a energy as well. It's interesting how bio-diesel is received compared to ethanol !! Ethanol does have some good properties along with some bad, you can see that from the article by looking at the mother natures fuel page.

 

[StevieC]

I think my engine ECU was programmed to work best on 87 Octane E-10 fuel because when I use 0% ethanol fuel I get worse economy than with the E-10.

Again I know this isn't possible if it's using a fuel that should have more energy content but it does and I can only surmise that it is because the ECU is programmed/tuned for E-10.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Sure a confusing answer that Huskey employee gave, it's either half right, or half wrong depending on what they are talking about.

I see about a 12% difference between E85 and E10 in my 2.2 ecotec. Like you said stevie, a proper program can make all the difference.

 

[StevieC]

I have e-mailed them just now about this and about whether or not they are considered "TOP-TIER" because they are using Suncor fuel (Sunoco Canada) which is on the Top-Tier list.

I will let y'all know what they say.

Steve

 

[Eddie]

If one runs the numbers, the data shows that E10 should reduce your mileage by 4.3%.

 

[sciphi]

I've gotten excellent mileage on E10. E0 offers consistently better mileage, though. I've tracked this for many thousands of miles.

Even within E10 fuel, some are much better than others. But it's very hit and miss what fuel is best.

 

[StevieC]

I track my mileage because of work and I track the fuel economy just because and I always get better mileage on E-10 than E-0.

I think mine is an ECM tuning as mentioned earlier...

I wonder if the ones getting better mileage with E0 have Knock Sensors and this is why? (Ethanol has better octane than gasoline)

 

[purelux]

Ethanol has better octane? 87, 89, 91, 93 whether you're no ethanol, E-10, E-15 or E-85. Also to do a accurate comparison you would have to have the exact same gas made with and without the 10% ethanol. Outside of being in that companies labratory good luck. You may happen to get older or newer gas, different addatives etc... Even if it were rated higher what would that get you unless the car were tuned to require higher octane. A knock sensor senses knock, hence the same and retards timing as necessary to a point to eliminate the knock. Or allows it to be advanced up to a limit.

 

[SL8R]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I track my mileage because of work and I track the fuel economy just because and I always get better mileage on E-10 than E-0.

I think mine is an ECM tuning as mentioned earlier...

I wonder if the ones getting better mileage with E0 have Knock Sensors and this is why? (Ethanol has better octane than gasoline)



Your Santa Fe has a knock sensor ...

 

[StevieC]

No it doesn't... Some vehicles come equipped with it, some do not. Depends on the area they are sold in. Dealer told me so and I looked where my Technical manual says it would be and it's not there but there is a port for it if I had one...

 

[SL8R]

Where did you buy your Santa Fe? My friend bought his 2006 Santa Fe brand new in Ontario and his has a knock sensor.

 

[StevieC]

I bought mine in Mississauga and it doesn't have it. I bought it on a "Close Out" special at the end of that model year.

Could you be looking at the wrong thing? (Not discounting your knowledge but I know where it is located and I would take a picture to show you but it's hard to get a camera in there)

Steve

 

[INDYMAC]

My 2000 Tundra V-8 went from 17MPG to 14MPG when I had to switch to E10. What is that, 18% fuel efficiency loss? I'm not sure I can get the tune level any better either.

 

[severach]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
But you can't take gas, add 10% of anything, and have the energy content be less than 90% of what you started with.

I wish I could agree but here's a report of 18% loss. Reports of 3%-35% loss are all over and they can't all be measurement errors. This Tundra driver would get better gas mileage by switching to E0 and BPing 10% of it into the ocean.

Somehow these drivers are mixing to 10% ethanol and not only are they getting nothing out of the alcohol, the alcohol reduces the efficiency of the remaining gasoline.

Perhaps the gasoline in the mix has changed as well.

 

[StevieC]

Huskey claims on their website they change the formulation bi-monthly... See the same FAQ link I posted above.

 

[Capa]

StevieC, the people getting better milege from E-0 vs E-10 isn't because of knock sensors but because scientifically and factually ethanol produces less energy than pure gas.

I don't know how you possibly get better mileage with E-10 but I guess there's always anomalies.