Dodge Viper / Mobil 1 comparisions

[Ron-Indy]

New to the oil analysis arena. Looking for input (good, avg., bad) as to the wear numbers I'm experiencing. Also would like comments on pro's and con's of switching to Delvac 1 in this application. Considering it because of it's broader viscosity range (I'll drive the car in temps
12,000 total miles on engine. New silicone type oil pan gasket installed prior to 10w-30 oil change could have impacted 17ppm silicon content perhaps?

Thanks for your help....

Sorry don't have a virgin 15w-50 M1 SS for comparision.

 

[Al]

Fairly high numbers for this low milage-especially iron. That could be due to cold weather or the silicon (if its dirt) Maybe it's the pan gasket. I would check your air filter seals.

Thanks for posting

 

[Ron-Indy]

Thank you Al. I'll switch back to OEM air filters for a run and see if that helps.

Dyno'd with OEM and K&N and picked up 14 RWHP with the K&N.

Not worth it if it's at the expense of engine life though.

 

[MolaKule]

Ron,

Thanks for the report. This is a new engine, so I would recommend staying with one oil for awhile (Mobil 1 SS 10W30) and look for some trends in engine wear. Not sure I would use 15W50 unless I was stomping on it at the track.

Save your Delvac 1 for summer.

Just curious, what does your Owners manual suggest for various temperatures?

I won a test drive in a Viper at the Chrysler Development Center one year where I presented a paper. Test drive wasn't long enough! Attempted to shed the Chrysler guy on the curves but his seatbelt was locked too tight!

 

[Ron-Indy]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. Will follow the trend and report back.

Molakule,

Car is everything I hoped it would be. I also test drove a while back and just had to find a way to get one. Fortunately was able to a few years back.

Used 15w-50 because of a summer race event. Bit of drag racing and road course work. Hot weather, high G & high RPM. Thought it would add a bit of protection. Will check the owners manual for temp ranges and report back.

Understand staying with the same oil for trending purposes, but why save Delvac 1 for summer? Wouldn't the 5w be superior in winter vs. 10w-30 M1?

Ryan,

Happy to share dyno sheet and will post later tonight. Don't remember the torque but the HP was 435 RW which depending on the factor gets me a touch over 500 FWHP. Engine is stock except for K&N and smooth tubes (OEM intake tubes are corragated and create turbulence) Will post picture also.

Thanks guys...

 

[Ron-Indy]

Of note is that the engine burned an horrendous quantity of oil when new. On the order of 2 quarts over the first 1,000 miles. The car sat in on a dealership showroom floor for 4 years waiting for me to buy it, so perhaps that was part of the problem. Factory fill was 10w-30 Mobil 1 and that's all that has been in it with the exception of the recent 15w-50 M1.

Over the next 3,000 miles or so, oil consumption diminished to about 1/2 quart over 2,000 miles, again driven fairly hard. Consumption is still slowly trending down.

Thanks

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron-Indy:

Used 15w-50 because of a summer race event. Bit of drag racing and road course work. Hot weather, high G & high RPM. Thought it would add a bit of protection. Will check the owners manual for temp ranges and report back.

Understand staying with the same oil for trending purposes, but why save Delvac 1 for summer? Wouldn't the 5w be superior in winter vs. 10w-30 M1?

---

Do you have an oil temp guage? I would believe that would be your primary indicator on the visosity of the oil. The high the average temps the heavier the oil.

For instance if your engine oil is staying less than 210, you should need to go over a Xw30, if its 210-230 or so look at an Xw40, if the oil temps are higher than that, go for the 50 stuff.

Delvac 1 has a beefier additive package and would do well over a very broad range of temps. Since you could use it year round.

Also don't forget since you have a 10qt capacity your oil doesn't have to work nearly as hard as a 4 quart car.

For now stick witht he 10w30 and see what the analysis do for you.

 

[sprintman]

I'd get the D1 in there ASAP!!

 

[Ryan00TJ]

Ron, Nice Ride by the Way!

I would keep the K@N filter and do another analysis with it and M1 SuperSyn 10W-30 to see if it's the air filter letting in the silicon or if it's your new pan gasket. Either way look for your wear numbers to drop slightly as your engine is still breaking in at 12,000 miles.

BTW you wouldn't happen to have any dyno sheets to post would you?

Earlier this year I was looking for a new sports car and did have my eye on a 94 RT-10 but the dealership was really marking it up so I went with a new SS Camaro. I can speak for most here when I ask you to give us a pic of the Snake!

Here's mine

She's got most bolt on mods and I'm working on long tube headers as we speak and a new cam next month. Looking for 400 rwhp and a empty wallet by spring.

 

[mkosem]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ron-Indy:
12,000 total miles on engine. New silicone type oil pan gasket installed prior to 10w-30 oil change could have impacted 17ppm silicon content perhaps?

---

Silicon differs substantially from silicone. Silicone is an organic polymer that contains elemental silicon. I'm doubting the gasket is the culprit.

--Matt

 

[Bror Jace]

Ron-Indy, I'm another that believes that the breaking-in process taints nearly all used oil tests before the 20,000 mile mark. Of course, this varies greatly between the brands of cars.

M1 SuperSyn is a vast improvement over Tri-Synthetic and I'd expect your wear metals to decrease over time BUT ...

With a 10qt. sump and 2,000 mile intervals, you are wasting your money with synthetic. Even a decent 100% Group II mineral oil won't be stressed in such a short amount of time, especially with the Viper making so much of its power down lown in the RPM band.

I'd go with Schaeffer 7000 Supreme synthetic blend 10W30. It has a better additive package than the mass-market Mobil 1. If you want even more protection, include a pint of Schaeffer #132 E.P. additive in that change.

The Schaeffer stuff isn't cheap at $3 per quart but it is a little cheaper than Mobil 1 ... and I'd bet it shows better wear numbers.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Ron-Indy, I'm another that believes that the breaking-in process taints nearly all used oil tests before the 20,000 mile mark. Of course, this varies greatly between the brands of cars.
--- Bror Jace

---

I concur. Over the past 10 years I have done analysis on about 5 new cars consistently and it takes at least 20,000 miles for the lab results to norm out, especially silicon.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
I'd go with Schaeffer 7000 Supreme synthetic blend 10W30. It has a better additive package than the mass-market Mobil 1.

---

What is this little tid-bit based on?

 

[Bror Jace]

G-Man II, more moly dithiocarbomate. Around 80ppm (M1 SS) versus 200ppm (Schaeffer).

Oh, and let's hope Ron-Indy never used one of the defective batches with missing barrier wear additives.

And Supreme 7000 consistently gives great results. SuperSyn has (usually) been promising so far but it's still a little new.

--- Bror Jace

 

[metroplex]

Redline has 700+ ppm of moly, but its wear numbers on some vehicles aren't great.

 

[Bror Jace]

Patman, I'm also a little miffed that no Red Line dealer would join this site as a sponsor.

Seems lik a perfect match for a small dealer and a way to get hundreds of contacts for new (loony tune oil nut

) customers.

Gee, metroplex is 200ppms of moly the perfect level? Nope, maybe not perfect (no one knows for sure) but that oil has probably the best, most consistent record of any oil on this site (Used Oil Analysis). The only time I wouldn't recommend it above a (true) full synthetic is if you were going 5,000+ miles ... or 3,000+ on a really high-RPM motor, especially one which runs high oil temps.

For 2,000 mile intervals, I'll still take take Schaeffer Supreme 7000 over pretty much anything else out there. Ron-Indy is going through a great deal of oil (quantity) so he should be able to make a $250 order (for free S&H) without much trouble ... especially if he gets other supplies with that order ... a gallon of Nuetra, some gear oil ... y'know, the basics.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Ron-Indy]

Thanks guys for your comments. Very much appreciate your shared knowledge.

MSPARKS - Vipers from 1992 ~ 2002 do not have oil temp gauges. 2003 M/Y now does. I will have to gen one up for some analysis.

MKOSEM - I notice that in a few of the virgin samples silicon is in the unused oil, for example, 6 ppm in Delvac 1. Is that by design?

BROR JACE - I agree on both the break in comments, as my oil comsumption continues to improve as do the dyno numbers. Also agree on the oil changes being uneconomically frequent, but wanted to change out the 10w-30 pre-race and the 15w-50 before winter hibernation. Future changes will be more normal, but never too long... plan on keeping this one for the duration.

RYAN00TJ - Dyno and picture as you requested. Sorry for the size, but graph is unreadable any smaller.

Note: Does anyone have an analysis of virgin Mobil 1 15w-50 supersyn? In my last used analysis I noticed the addditives of 15w-50 are significantly different than 10w-30 supersyn.

Thanks

..

[ February 02, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Ron-Indy ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
G-Man II, more moly dithiocarbomate. Around 80ppm (M1 SS) versus 200ppm (Schaeffer).

---

Don't you think it's stretching it a bit to say that Schaeffers has a "better additive package" just because it has more moly? I do.

 

[Patman]

It's not just the moly in Schaeffer Supreme though. It's also the Penetro, plus the whole additive package works well because we know it keeps engines pretty clean and we also know it retains it's TBN very well too, and holds it's viscosity well. It also shows very low oxidation rates too.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by metroplex:
Redline has 700+ ppm of moly, but its wear numbers on some vehicles aren't great.

---

As Terry has told us though, sometimes on the first few intervals with Redline it shows higher because it's cleaning up stuff left behind from past oils. Use it for a while and things will level off. I still do wonder why they use such an excessive amount of moly. I wonder if they ran 200ppm of moly instead if they'd see results pretty much the same? I wish someone was on here from Redline who could explain this for us.