initial Japanese cars had many flaws but, when I looked for my first car in late 1969, they were progressing very rapidly. I looked at a Datsun Fairlady (MG clone) but insurance and sports car were not wise for a 21 year old, and a Datsun 510 was a copy of a BMW 1600, not as nice and yet very close to the same price. I skipped the VW fastback and bought the cheapest car of any brand that I could find (based on total cost) a BMW 2002. I hitch hiked to my RR job for almost 6 more months before it arrived. I caught a city bus to the old farmhouse on the west side of Indy (US 40) and the car was in the back yard under a tarp, just like the demo had been. Yet just a year later the 240z came out and compared nicely to the 914. I had looked at a Rambler American and a Chevy II and was turned off by the car and totally insulted by the salesmen. The Chevy guy seemed to be KKK all the way and the insurance was high. I was just too poor to buy an American car anyway. But in late 1969 the Japanese were almost there. I don't think the American dealers had a clue. And yes, service was either dealer or independent mostly German mechanics. The interesting thing was that I knew nothing about cars yet every car I really considered turned out to be something really special.I wish I could have made $$$ off that skill.
Did shop owners dislike Japanese cars early on?
- Thread starter edwardh1
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Originally Posted By: edwardh1
Silk said:
A history of Honda entering the US is here:
http://www.autonews.com/section/honda50
Starting in 1959, it wasn't an easy journey.
Also, I drove a friend's N600 once. Very low gearing. I was at redline in 1st without much forward motion at all.
http://www.autonews.com/section/honda50
Starting in 1959, it wasn't an easy journey.
Also, I drove a friend's N600 once. Very low gearing. I was at redline in 1st without much forward motion at all.
The earliest Japanese imports were not very impressive. Parts were hard to come by, and quality wasn't consistent.
J. Edwards Demming can be credited for teaching quality techniques to the Japanese auto makers. Look him up. Cool concepts.
My father looked at the 77-76 Honda Civics as clown cars... those motors were known to blow rods. CVCC I think they were called.
Anyway... Metalurgy was Japan's biggest enemy at the time... and it's facing China's cars now.. you have to master the metal formula to ensure reliability.
As far as what Mechanics like and don't like... I like Ford family, as I find their maintenence easier than other cars.
J. Edwards Demming can be credited for teaching quality techniques to the Japanese auto makers. Look him up. Cool concepts.
My father looked at the 77-76 Honda Civics as clown cars... those motors were known to blow rods. CVCC I think they were called.
Anyway... Metalurgy was Japan's biggest enemy at the time... and it's facing China's cars now.. you have to master the metal formula to ensure reliability.
As far as what Mechanics like and don't like... I like Ford family, as I find their maintenence easier than other cars.
Only Honda, Ferrari, and British Racing Motors produced their own Formula One engines AND chassis in the early '60s. Nobody else.
Honda motorcycles were noted for their reliability and their ability to remain oil-tight.
'70s hemispherical combustion chambered OHV T-series Toyotas are the Otto cycle drag racing engines in Puerto Rico.
Mazda made a Wankel rotary work in a daily driver. Something the Germans could not do.
The metallurgy was there. Had been for centuries. The Japanese katana is a good example of metallurgical skill. Post WW2 was the problem. They often did not have the resources to make that quality of item large scale.
Honda motorcycles were noted for their reliability and their ability to remain oil-tight.
'70s hemispherical combustion chambered OHV T-series Toyotas are the Otto cycle drag racing engines in Puerto Rico.
Mazda made a Wankel rotary work in a daily driver. Something the Germans could not do.
The metallurgy was there. Had been for centuries. The Japanese katana is a good example of metallurgical skill. Post WW2 was the problem. They often did not have the resources to make that quality of item large scale.
My dad was lucky enough to know how to do most of the work on his '71 and '79 Toyota Corolla. He said he had to do very little work, the only thing that gave him problems frequently were hydraulic clutch parts, however, those parts were never too complex or expensive to replace.
Dad did have a smog-related problem with his '79 which turned the cat cherry red, however, it was under warranty, and the dealer gave him no trouble.
Mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. That thing was a pain. It was better than the nearest FWD American car, but that doesn't say much. I don't remember how the mechanic shops treated my parents, because I was too young, I was born in 1984. If Nissan would have decided to keep building RWD Maximas until the 1989 model came out, their cars would have been great.
Anyway, my dad found that the people who hate Japanese cars are usually very old, or work in a labor union and have a problem with things not made by a union.
Dad did have a smog-related problem with his '79 which turned the cat cherry red, however, it was under warranty, and the dealer gave him no trouble.
Mom had a 1985 Nissan Maxima. That thing was a pain. It was better than the nearest FWD American car, but that doesn't say much. I don't remember how the mechanic shops treated my parents, because I was too young, I was born in 1984. If Nissan would have decided to keep building RWD Maximas until the 1989 model came out, their cars would have been great.
Anyway, my dad found that the people who hate Japanese cars are usually very old, or work in a labor union and have a problem with things not made by a union.
how is a car made for small roads going to hold up on full sizes roads?
My Uncle had a late 60'S Corona..The independent mechanics in Miami would not even let him in the garage to change his oil..He had to go the dealer for regular maintenance.
To my amazement his Corona gave him no issues for 80K miles until he passed away..The a/c in his Corona would freeze you out all year long in Miami jungle heat..Not sure what happened to the Corona after my Uncle died.
The DJs on the radio in Miami made fun of the Corona every chance they got..One of the DJs [who owned one at the time] said every week their was issue with his Corona.
To my amazement his Corona gave him no issues for 80K miles until he passed away..The a/c in his Corona would freeze you out all year long in Miami jungle heat..Not sure what happened to the Corona after my Uncle died.
The DJs on the radio in Miami made fun of the Corona every chance they got..One of the DJs [who owned one at the time] said every week their was issue with his Corona.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
My Uncle had a late 60'S Corona..The independent mechanics in Miami would not even let him in the garage to change his oil..He had to go the dealer for regular maintenance.
To my amazement his Corona gave him no issues for 80K miles until he passed away..The a/c in his Corona would freeze you out all year long in Miami jungle heat..Not sure what happened to the Corona after my Uncle died.
The DJs on the radio in Miami made fun of the Corona every chance they got..One of the DJs [who owned one at the time] said every week their was issue with his Corona.
Old BMWs have weekly issues. ask me how i know
But I still love them.
My Uncle had a late 60'S Corona..The independent mechanics in Miami would not even let him in the garage to change his oil..He had to go the dealer for regular maintenance.
To my amazement his Corona gave him no issues for 80K miles until he passed away..The a/c in his Corona would freeze you out all year long in Miami jungle heat..Not sure what happened to the Corona after my Uncle died.
The DJs on the radio in Miami made fun of the Corona every chance they got..One of the DJs [who owned one at the time] said every week their was issue with his Corona.
Old BMWs have weekly issues. ask me how i know
I had an autoshop teacher (early 1990's) that was a retired mechanic. He was a dealer mech. and then an independant in the 70's and 80's. His favorite cars to work on from purely a work standpoint...Toyota. He liked the way they were put together and they seemed to be quality. His favorite vehicles to work on as a businessman...Ford and Fiat, he "Those cars kept me in business, I made a lot of money on their junk". I liked Mr. Taylor.
Originally Posted By: morris
how is a car made for small roads going to hold up on full sizes roads?
I had a 1974 Celica. It did quite well.
I don't know what happened to the original 18R. The previous owner had installed a later model 20R and 5-speed from a Hilux pickup. Not much difference in HP but a bit more torque
One of my friends had a Camaro Berlinetta with a 229 V6. In spite of the Berlinetta's 20 hp advantage, the Celica would walk away from it.
The Celica lacked the steering precision and handling of a Mazda RX-3 or BMW 2002, but it was still a lot of fun to pitch into a corner. It was at least as good as any 4 cyl Vega, MustangII, Monza, 200SX, etc...
It's funny that people think of Japanese cars from that era as underpowered. It was specifically the Plymouth Cricket (British Hillman Avenger) with the big variant of the engine (1.5l - UK had a 1.2)that was replaced by the Mitsubishi built Dodge Colt.
The Hillman just wasn't powerful enough (and had the usual British rust problems)
Power and handling was not a problem for the RX-2, RX-3, 240/260/280Z, 510 etc...They have long and successful histories on road courses.
At the other end of the spectrum though, GM ceased to import the very good German Opel Manta (with about 100 hp on tap it was actually a legitimate contender to the Mazda RX-3 and BMW 2002) and replaced it with the unfortunately named "Buick Opel by Isuzu". 3 manufacturer's names - no real model name - sedan version of the Chevette chassis.
how is a car made for small roads going to hold up on full sizes roads?
I had a 1974 Celica. It did quite well.
I don't know what happened to the original 18R. The previous owner had installed a later model 20R and 5-speed from a Hilux pickup. Not much difference in HP but a bit more torque
One of my friends had a Camaro Berlinetta with a 229 V6. In spite of the Berlinetta's 20 hp advantage, the Celica would walk away from it.
The Celica lacked the steering precision and handling of a Mazda RX-3 or BMW 2002, but it was still a lot of fun to pitch into a corner. It was at least as good as any 4 cyl Vega, MustangII, Monza, 200SX, etc...
It's funny that people think of Japanese cars from that era as underpowered. It was specifically the Plymouth Cricket (British Hillman Avenger) with the big variant of the engine (1.5l - UK had a 1.2)that was replaced by the Mitsubishi built Dodge Colt.
The Hillman just wasn't powerful enough (and had the usual British rust problems)
Power and handling was not a problem for the RX-2, RX-3, 240/260/280Z, 510 etc...They have long and successful histories on road courses.
At the other end of the spectrum though, GM ceased to import the very good German Opel Manta (with about 100 hp on tap it was actually a legitimate contender to the Mazda RX-3 and BMW 2002) and replaced it with the unfortunately named "Buick Opel by Isuzu". 3 manufacturer's names - no real model name - sedan version of the Chevette chassis.
We had the 1300 and 1600 too - I always wondered why Rootes brought out two cars so similar in size, they were almost competing with each other. One day I was working on an Avenger and moaning about what a piece of rubbish it was, when my workmate who had served his apprenticeship at a Rootes/Chrysler dealer said ''Sure, it's a nasty piece of work, but how many engines have you had to rebuild on one?'' The answer was never, done a few headgaskets and that was all. Did a lot more engine jobs on Japanese vehicles of the same era, but never a Hillman Avenger.
In 1980/81 I was working in a Mazda/Fiat dealership, and I worked on more Fiats than Mazda...not because Fiats needed more work, just that there were more of them. Fiats had a cambelt, Mazda's of that era were all chain - I did more Mazda camchains than Fiat cambelts.
In 1980/81 I was working in a Mazda/Fiat dealership, and I worked on more Fiats than Mazda...not because Fiats needed more work, just that there were more of them. Fiats had a cambelt, Mazda's of that era were all chain - I did more Mazda camchains than Fiat cambelts.
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I'm going go out on a limb and say more mechanics probably like Chevy than anything else.
Of course. Look at all the cash flow that GM vehicles generate for mechanics, and you'll understand why they like them.
I'm going go out on a limb and say more mechanics probably like Chevy than anything else.
Of course. Look at all the cash flow that GM vehicles generate for mechanics, and you'll understand why they like them.
Originally Posted By: morris
how is a car made for small roads going to hold up on full sizes roads?
Not sure what you are asking here?
Have we not had Japanise and Europen sized cars on North America' s 'Full Sized' roads for over 35 years?
I'd also add, that average speeds on those Full sized roads are not that high.
how is a car made for small roads going to hold up on full sizes roads?
Not sure what you are asking here?
Have we not had Japanise and Europen sized cars on North America' s 'Full Sized' roads for over 35 years?
I'd also add, that average speeds on those Full sized roads are not that high.
"At the other end of the spectrum though, GM ceased to import the very good German Opel Manta (with about 100 hp on tap it was actually a legitimate contender to the Mazda RX-3 and BMW 2002) and replaced it with the unfortunately named "Buick Opel by Isuzu". "
I owned a sweet little '71 model Opel Manta Rallye(silver, with the matte black hood that all the Rallye models had back then. And yes, that's how they spelled it.
). Bought it used in early '73. Inline 4 cyl, 4-sp manual, factory tach & A/C. I have no idea how well it might have stacked up against the above-mentioned BMW & Mazda rotary- but that little Opel sure was great fun to drive on the twisty back roads of NE Texas! It was totaled after a little over a year.
Most common comment on the car: "You need to put some wax on that hood."
I owned a sweet little '71 model Opel Manta Rallye(silver, with the matte black hood that all the Rallye models had back then. And yes, that's how they spelled it.
Most common comment on the car: "You need to put some wax on that hood."
The old Honda CVCC (controlled vortex combustion chamber) engines from the 70's and 80' were notorious oil burners, but if you topped them off they would run forever. As a kid in the 70's I still remember all the bumper stickers like; "Out of work? Hungry? Eat your import" or many of the stickers pertaining to the Japanese. The same people that brought us Pearl Harbor. I remember my uncle putting an old Hitachi 4bbl carburetor from an RX3 on his old Thunderbird. It made the car reliable, powerful and more economical. Oh well, there are my random comments.
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
The old Honda CVCC (controlled vortex combustion chamber) engines from the 70's and 80' were notorious oil burners, but if you topped them off they would run forever. ...
It wouldn't foul the plug either since the spark plug was in it's own chamber.
The old Honda CVCC (controlled vortex combustion chamber) engines from the 70's and 80' were notorious oil burners, but if you topped them off they would run forever. ...
It wouldn't foul the plug either since the spark plug was in it's own chamber.
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
The old Honda CVCC (controlled vortex combustion chamber) engines from the 70's and 80' were notorious oil burners, but if you topped them off they would run forever. As a kid in the 70's I still remember all the bumper stickers like; "Out of work? Hungry? Eat your import" or many of the stickers pertaining to the Japanese. The same people that brought us Pearl Harbor. I remember my uncle putting an old Hitachi 4bbl carburetor from an RX3 on his old Thunderbird. It made the car reliable, powerful and more economical. Oh well, there are my random comments.
I always laughed at the "Hungry? Eat your import" stickers, because it ignores the simple economic fact that when stuff get imported, stuff gets exported, creating more wealth for all.
The old Honda CVCC (controlled vortex combustion chamber) engines from the 70's and 80' were notorious oil burners, but if you topped them off they would run forever. As a kid in the 70's I still remember all the bumper stickers like; "Out of work? Hungry? Eat your import" or many of the stickers pertaining to the Japanese. The same people that brought us Pearl Harbor. I remember my uncle putting an old Hitachi 4bbl carburetor from an RX3 on his old Thunderbird. It made the car reliable, powerful and more economical. Oh well, there are my random comments.
I always laughed at the "Hungry? Eat your import" stickers, because it ignores the simple economic fact that when stuff get imported, stuff gets exported, creating more wealth for all.
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