Trying to fix the title again.
Cut Open FRAM XG717 Honda Applications
- Thread starter DuckRyder
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Duck: Thanks for making the cut. I wanted to cut that XG7317 and the XG3593A apart side by side and get a comparison of the amount of media, but cheapskate that I am, couldn't bring myself to do it. Could you measure the height of the media from endcap to endcap, measure the depth of the pleats and count the pleats, please. That way, we can estimate media area. Then, maybe I can force myself to cut open a XG3593A and do the same. Then we'd know, at least in the case of these two filters, which has the most media. As you may know, in other filter brands, the XG7317 application crossover has more media. Comparing these two Fram filters externally, it does not appear the difference is as great. Would be nice to know.
Quote:
Same as a orange can, twice the price!!
Do a little research before typing and you can avoid foolish statements, steveh. Having tasted my feet on several occasions, I know.
LeakySeals: We settled that. I was incorrect when I said a couple of times that the Ultra was one layer. We confirmed it with Fram (Motorking) that it's two, but it's kind stuck together so it appears to be only one.
Quote:
Same as a orange can, twice the price!!
Do a little research before typing and you can avoid foolish statements, steveh. Having tasted my feet on several occasions, I know.
LeakySeals: We settled that. I was incorrect when I said a couple of times that the Ultra was one layer. We confirmed it with Fram (Motorking) that it's two, but it's kind stuck together so it appears to be only one.
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Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
...Also that gasket on the metal end cap. Can you get it off and take a pic? want to determine what its made of.
The metal end cap has a recessed area embossed into it, the "gasket" is bonded to the end cap. It is relatively thin, and appears to be... umm... fiber.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Duck: Thanks for making the cut. I wanted to cut that XG7317 and the XG3593A apart side by side and get a comparison of the amount of media, but cheapskate that I am, couldn't bring myself to do it. Could you measure the height of the media from endcap to endcap, measure the depth of the pleats and count the pleats, please. That way, we can estimate media area. Then, maybe I can force myself to cut open a XG3593A and do the same. Then we'd know, at least in the case of these two filters, which has the most media. As you may know, in other filter brands, the XG7317 application crossover has more media. Comparing these two Fram filters externally, it does not appear the difference is as great. Would be nice to know...
I come up with about 2.150 measuring to the middle of the end cap flanges which appears to be about where the potting ends, .435 each pleat and 31 pleats.
...Also that gasket on the metal end cap. Can you get it off and take a pic? want to determine what its made of.
The metal end cap has a recessed area embossed into it, the "gasket" is bonded to the end cap. It is relatively thin, and appears to be... umm... fiber.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Duck: Thanks for making the cut. I wanted to cut that XG7317 and the XG3593A apart side by side and get a comparison of the amount of media, but cheapskate that I am, couldn't bring myself to do it. Could you measure the height of the media from endcap to endcap, measure the depth of the pleats and count the pleats, please. That way, we can estimate media area. Then, maybe I can force myself to cut open a XG3593A and do the same. Then we'd know, at least in the case of these two filters, which has the most media. As you may know, in other filter brands, the XG7317 application crossover has more media. Comparing these two Fram filters externally, it does not appear the difference is as great. Would be nice to know...
I come up with about 2.150 measuring to the middle of the end cap flanges which appears to be about where the potting ends, .435 each pleat and 31 pleats.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I come up with about 2.150 measuring to the middle of the end cap flanges which appears to be about where the potting ends, .435 each pleat and 31 pleats.
Media Area = (0.435" x 2) x 2.15" x 31 pleats = 58 sq-in.
I come up with about 2.150 measuring to the middle of the end cap flanges which appears to be about where the potting ends, .435 each pleat and 31 pleats.
Media Area = (0.435" x 2) x 2.15" x 31 pleats = 58 sq-in.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
The black wrinkle paint is enough to keep me from actually running one though.
Thats one of the features I like about it. Comes in handy during a re-use where the filter can gets soaked in oil. I don't use a wrench, having the sure grip helps with slippery hands.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I come up with about 2.150 measuring to the middle of the end cap flanges which appears to be about where the potting ends, .435 each pleat and 31 pleats.
Media Area = (0.435" x 2) x 2.15" x 31 pleats = 58 sq-in.
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
The black wrinkle paint is enough to keep me from actually running one though.
Thats one of the features I like about it. Comes in handy during a re-use where the filter can gets soaked in oil. I don't use a wrench, having the sure grip helps with slippery hands.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I come up with about 2.150 measuring to the middle of the end cap flanges which appears to be about where the potting ends, .435 each pleat and 31 pleats.
Media Area = (0.435" x 2) x 2.15" x 31 pleats = 58 sq-in.
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Nothing ... area is area, regardless of how thick the media is. If media volume was being measured, then it might matter with multi-layers and thicker layers.
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Nothing ... area is area, regardless of how thick the media is. If media volume was being measured, then it might matter with multi-layers and thicker layers.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Duck: Thanks for making the cut. I wanted to cut that XG7317 and the XG3593A apart side by side and get a comparison of the amount of media, but cheapskate that I am, couldn't bring myself to do it. Could you measure the height of the media from endcap to endcap, measure the depth of the pleats and count the pleats, please. That way, we can estimate media area. Then, maybe I can force myself to cut open a XG3593A and do the same. Then we'd know, at least in the case of these two filters, which has the most media. As you may know, in other filter brands, the XG7317 application crossover has more media. Comparing these two Fram filters externally, it does not appear the difference is as great. Would be nice to know.
Quote:
Same as a orange can, twice the price!!
Do a little research before typing and you can avoid foolish statements, steveh. Having tasted my feet on several occasions, I know. I was just making a KevGuy joke. I have been using this same filter on my Altima.
LeakySeals: We settled that. I was incorrect when I said a couple of times that the Ultra was one layer. We confirmed it with Fram (Motorking) that it's two, but it's kind stuck together so it appears to be only one.
Duck: Thanks for making the cut. I wanted to cut that XG7317 and the XG3593A apart side by side and get a comparison of the amount of media, but cheapskate that I am, couldn't bring myself to do it. Could you measure the height of the media from endcap to endcap, measure the depth of the pleats and count the pleats, please. That way, we can estimate media area. Then, maybe I can force myself to cut open a XG3593A and do the same. Then we'd know, at least in the case of these two filters, which has the most media. As you may know, in other filter brands, the XG7317 application crossover has more media. Comparing these two Fram filters externally, it does not appear the difference is as great. Would be nice to know.
Quote:
Same as a orange can, twice the price!!
Do a little research before typing and you can avoid foolish statements, steveh. Having tasted my feet on several occasions, I know. I was just making a KevGuy joke. I have been using this same filter on my Altima.
LeakySeals: We settled that. I was incorrect when I said a couple of times that the Ultra was one layer. We confirmed it with Fram (Motorking) that it's two, but it's kind stuck together so it appears to be only one.
Thanks for the pics. I'm running this filter on my Honda Accord right now for 2 OCI as per Honda. Nothing bad to report...I will be staying with this filter.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Nothing ... area is area, regardless of how thick the media is. If media volume was being measured, then it might matter with multi-layers and thicker layers.
BUT, it needs to be said that synthetic media is a depth media, meaning it takes a substantial amount of contamination inside itself. Cellulose media is surface loaded, stopping most of the contamination on the surface. For that reason, you can't compare media area between a cellulose and a synthetic filter. If you could find two filters, one syn and one cell, of identical media surface area, you would find the syn media to have greater capacity in grams of material captured.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Nothing ... area is area, regardless of how thick the media is. If media volume was being measured, then it might matter with multi-layers and thicker layers.
BUT, it needs to be said that synthetic media is a depth media, meaning it takes a substantial amount of contamination inside itself. Cellulose media is surface loaded, stopping most of the contamination on the surface. For that reason, you can't compare media area between a cellulose and a synthetic filter. If you could find two filters, one syn and one cell, of identical media surface area, you would find the syn media to have greater capacity in grams of material captured.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Nothing ... area is area, regardless of how thick the media is. If media volume was being measured, then it might matter with multi-layers and thicker layers.
BUT, it needs to be said that synthetic media is a depth media, meaning it takes a substantial amount of contamination inside itself. Cellulose media is surface loaded, stopping most of the contamination on the surface. For that reason, you can't compare media area between a cellulose and a synthetic filter. If you could find two filters, one syn and one cell, of identical media surface area, you would find the syn media to have greater capacity in grams of material captured.
+ 1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Its 2 layers, not sure what that does to the equation.
Nothing ... area is area, regardless of how thick the media is. If media volume was being measured, then it might matter with multi-layers and thicker layers.
BUT, it needs to be said that synthetic media is a depth media, meaning it takes a substantial amount of contamination inside itself. Cellulose media is surface loaded, stopping most of the contamination on the surface. For that reason, you can't compare media area between a cellulose and a synthetic filter. If you could find two filters, one syn and one cell, of identical media surface area, you would find the syn media to have greater capacity in grams of material captured.
+ 1
Nice filter...
but for that amount of money for a FRAM XG717, I will buy 3 PureOne oil filters and run each filter with multiple OCI's.
but for that amount of money for a FRAM XG717, I will buy 3 PureOne oil filters and run each filter with multiple OCI's.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Nice filter...
but for that amount of money for a FRAM XG717, I will buy 3 PureOne oil filters and run each filter with multiple OCI's.
Oh look, it is the PureOne version of KevGuy.
Nice filter...
but for that amount of money for a FRAM XG717, I will buy 3 PureOne oil filters and run each filter with multiple OCI's.
Oh look, it is the PureOne version of KevGuy.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
BUT, it needs to be said that synthetic media is a depth media, meaning it takes a substantial amount of contamination inside itself. Cellulose media is surface loaded, stopping most of the contamination on the surface. For that reason, you can't compare media area between a cellulose and a synthetic filter. If you could find two filters, one syn and one cell, of identical media surface area, you would find the syn media to have greater capacity in grams of material captured.
Good points ... and I agree. I guess with full synthetic media it should really be "media volume" that is the measurement standard to compare.
BUT, it needs to be said that synthetic media is a depth media, meaning it takes a substantial amount of contamination inside itself. Cellulose media is surface loaded, stopping most of the contamination on the surface. For that reason, you can't compare media area between a cellulose and a synthetic filter. If you could find two filters, one syn and one cell, of identical media surface area, you would find the syn media to have greater capacity in grams of material captured.
Good points ... and I agree. I guess with full synthetic media it should really be "media volume" that is the measurement standard to compare.
Ok, I cut open the other Honda application filter in the Ultra line, the XG3593A. I'll post pics in a little while, but here are the media area specs:
Media Area = (0.5" x 2) x 2" x 35 pleats = 70 sq-in
So. in the Ultra line, the XG3593A has about 17 percent more area than the XG7317.. the opposite of the Wix situation. The filter element in the 3593 is 2.75" in diameter and 2.38" tall (measured to the outside of the metal endcaps. If duck would measure the element of the 7317, then we could compare that dimension.
Media Area = (0.5" x 2) x 2" x 35 pleats = 70 sq-in
So. in the Ultra line, the XG3593A has about 17 percent more area than the XG7317.. the opposite of the Wix situation. The filter element in the 3593 is 2.75" in diameter and 2.38" tall (measured to the outside of the metal endcaps. If duck would measure the element of the 7317, then we could compare that dimension.
I get
2.44 high
2.5 diameter
2.44 high
2.5 diameter
Ok, here are pics of the Ultra XG3593A
The complete unit. I now write all the dimensions & such on the endcap.
The filter element.
A view down the center tube and showing the gasket at the base for the spring/bypass valve.
A super closeup of the media on the outside.
The spring side of the bypass valve.
The inside of the bypass valve that faces into the center tube.
Closeup of the baseplate and ADBV.
The complete unit. I now write all the dimensions & such on the endcap.
The filter element.
A view down the center tube and showing the gasket at the base for the spring/bypass valve.
A super closeup of the media on the outside.
The spring side of the bypass valve.
The inside of the bypass valve that faces into the center tube.
Closeup of the baseplate and ADBV.
Last edited by a moderator:
No doubt the FRAM Ultra is a nice filter. I think one reason there aren't a lot of pleats is because the media is pretty thick and has the wire backing ... so they just can't put 50~60 pleats in the filter like the cellulose media filters have of this size range. Less pleats means less calculated surface area. But as Jim pointed out, with full synthetic media there is the media thickness variable that plays in to effective filtering area, so to speak.
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