Cold starts

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So I'm thinking that if one could install a pump that would circulate the oil before you turn voer the engine, you could dramatically decrease startup wear.

Discuss.

Is it possible? Would it really help any?

Thanks!
 
If you could also have that same oil heated to 200F before starting, I believe engine wear would be extremely low.
 
Im showing some ignorance here, but could a manual pump be added to the belt (???) driven pump that comes OEM and the "operation end" be placed inside the cabin (kind of like a choke on the older rides or ???) to pre-lube the motor?
 
What of an electrical pump than uses the exsisting "pathways" that oil normally flows through....maybe a "T" connection of some kind.

Just tossing out some ideas here....
 
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Most oil pumps are gear driven off the crank or cam(s) in an engine, so you'd have to add a completely separate pump. BUT, Amsoil ALREADY has this product, http://www.allsyntheticsgroup.com/preoiler.html




cheers.gif


Nice...Im going to read up on it now....
 
Quote:


If you could also have that same oil heated to 200F before starting, I believe engine wear would be extremely low.




As Pat implied, why not just install an oil pan heater
instead of finding some kind of widget.

The last time that I checked, engines really like warm
oil on start up! I believe that oil pan heaters can be
had for around $60. Which is what some pay for the oil
alone.

Please correct me if i've missed something here?
 
Quote:


So I'm thinking that if one could install a pump that would circulate the oil before you turn voer the engine, you could dramatically decrease startup wear.

Discuss.

Is it possible? Would it really help any?

Thanks!




That's only part of it. You'd also have to have a way to warm up the oil and the rest of the engine close to operating temperature.

Studies have shown that starting a warm, recently running engine doesn't produce much wear. Thus you don't have to cringe when you see a UPS truck go by.
 
Quote:


Most oil pumps are gear driven off the crank or cam(s) in an engine, so you'd have to add a completely separate pump. BUT, Amsoil ALREADY has this product, http://www.allsyntheticsgroup.com/preoiler.html




Quote:


With the AMS-Oiler in place, 160 cubic centimeters of oil is injected directly on the engine bearings and other wear sensitive surfaces upon turning of the key, giving instant protection to vital engine components.




Not sure 5 ounces of oil is going to do much for anything but the main bearings.
 
Start up wear is a 20 or 30 minute affair. The best thing you can do is use a 0W-XX oil, preferably synthetic, and drive easy for the first 10 or 15 miles. I do not believe that a pre-oiler will do anything significant.

aehaas
 
Ok lets think about this a minute. Where is wear occuring on cold start up? Is it the rods and mains?, cam bearings?, other valvetrain bits?,piston skirts?,cylinder bores?, rings?, all of the above?,some of the above?,or maybe even things that I left out.
I have read several cases where a stuck open thermostat resulted in excessive bore, piston skirt, and ring wear,and compariatively litte wear elsewhere. I remember reading a GM engineering study where they got several hundred percent more wear in these areas by leaving the thermostat out of an otherwise normal engine.
Ok if this is true then what is the wear mechanism? Is it rocking motion of the piston allowed by the extra clearances in a cold engine? Is the extra wear induced by combustion by products which are normally expelled in a hot engine and condense on the cylinder walls and combustion chamber due to lack of enough heat to "boil" them off. I understand that some of the combustion by products are acidic in nature and include nitric acid.
My hypothesis is that the wear is a combination of mechanical wear caused by cold clearances and erosive chemical wear induced by combustion by products and the lack of heat to drive them off the affected parts.
Aside from the power consumed a block heater makes a lot of sense to me.
Rickey.
 
Quote:


My hypothesis is that the wear is a combination of mechanical wear caused by cold clearances and erosive chemical wear induced by combustion by products and the lack of heat to drive them off the affected parts.




Yep. You pretty much got it. Just add in a little non-idealized lubrication.
 
Time variability involved do to unequalized temperatures. This ties the last few post together - The oil being too cold to help evap moisture and other volitals from pre and post combustion byproducts leading to dilution and corrosive porduct formation; part fitment/clearance issues related to temperature and expansion/contraction properties; lubricant viscosity which for the most part is related to it's temperature. Thinner viscosity aid regions like piston rings to cylinder wall, while heavier viscosities aid regions like cam actuation point where hydrodynamic regimins could be though non-existent do to slow surface speeds and load distribution. I believe this is one of the reasons why it's not good to idle large diesel engines for extended periods, but I'm looking into this (as well as how effective oil cooling surfaces are); And then there's the appearent fact of thermal dependent additives that become more active as temperature increases, and being that oil additive packages are likely leaning towards providing most effective protection while at running temperature, colder temps could relate to such additive depended regions wear increase; Journal bearings will have a stick-slip action until an oil wedge is generated by shaft rotation within the journal, unless provisions are made in the bearing design to enable lift of the shaft via prelubing prior to start-up. Beyond this initial wear behavior I figure load and debre bridging to be the only other wear factors in plain bearings.

I'll post now and some resource links as I find them again.

I've pondered cold start wear issues for a while, but to be honest it was more about worrying than anything else do to my lack of knowledge of the many factors and mechanisms involved, but in NO way does that mean I'm some sort of expert. By all means, consider me a rookie. I send many thanks to contributers here and to all those that have enabled informative resources availible on the www. In retrospect, a lot of the time the trouble is with defining the question, for which one is then able to work towards finding the answer.

Thumb's up guys!
 
I'll be darned if I can find a link to one such paper (pdf) in particular. It's title is "Improved Fuel Efficiency by Lubricant Design : A Review", by R.I. Taylor & R.C. Coy. Shell research and tech center. I can't link to anything off the www because of acess requirements.

If someone's able to find the topic that links for download here from the site, the last few pages discuss viscosity appearent favorability as far as the piston ring and cam regions concerning the 5w-20 and 15w-40 tested oils.

Take care.
 
Quote:


I'll be darned if I can find a link to one such paper (pdf) in particular. It's title is "Improved Fuel Efficiency by Lubricant Design : A Review", by R.I. Taylor & R.C. Coy. Shell research and tech center. I can't link to anything off the www because of acess requirements.

If someone's able to find the topic that links for download here from the site, the last few pages discuss viscosity appearent favorability as far as the piston ring and cam regions concerning the 5w-20 and 15w-40 tested oils.

Take care.



Here you go:
Improved Fuel Efficiency by Lubricant Design: A Review. RI Taylor & RC Coy
 
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