cleaning a sludge monster

[kschachn]

Yes, that is exactly what a 1MZ-FE run on conventional oil with unknown OCI can look like. You'll never clean that crust off the valve cover, and it's likely blocking the baffle inlets to the PCV. Since you've already buttoned it up, I'd stick with the synthetic routine unless you're getting rid of it soon.

If you want the PCV system to work properly I'm going to guess that the cover needs to be cleaned or replaced.

For reference here is the rear cylinder bank on my 1MZ-FE at 299,000 miles, along with the inside of the valve cover (and the new upgraded one I replaced it with). This engine was exclusively run on synthetic at a relatively short OCI (around 6500 miles average):

 

[camrydriver111]

What is upgraded about the new cover?

 

[B320i]

Compared to the actual "sludge monster" engines, I doubt you have a problem.

There are photos on the ToyotaNation forums of a 1MZ-FE run on 3K intervals with synthetic, IIRC. That engine looks practically unused, despite relatively high mileage.

My suggestion is Synthetic at 5K or more, depending on UOA results.
These engines run far too hot for conventional oil on anything longer than 5K or every couple of months (depending on driving habits). Couple this extreme with frequent cold starts on short trips, sudden heat, you could create a bigger problem.

OBTW - a 15 year old car can still be "good." If it meets your expectations of comfort, economy, reliability and performance and price, whats not to like?
My car is a 1993. By my standards, and most everyone else's, its a great car. And it beats the pants of even newer cars in fuel consumption (particularly domestic vehicles from the same timeframe).

 

[WillsYoda]

Originally Posted By: koffy
http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah4/koffygt/20151104_121240_zpspyyw9yfy.jpg
http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah4/koffygt/20151104_121221_zpsilihkk2m.jpg
http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah4/koffygt/20151104_121216_zpsfn07lsw6.jpg

These are some of the pics I took,
I don't remember if it's a vvt-i engine,,,
I'll check tomorrow, if it is I guess I'll push my sister to buy a timing belt kit so I can do it in the spring


I have a 1998 1MZFE and it is as clean as kschachn's pic. It mostly got 3k OCI with cheap dino for the first 100k and then Maxlife blend for the last 100k. It is now on PP HM just for fun (PP HM was on sale). The PCV valves have always worked fine and never clogged.

Your car IS NOT a sludgemonster. It is fine. It just isn't that bad.

I might clean the inside of both valve covers with brakeclean and a brush, change the PCV valve every few years, and use Maxlife Blend at 3k-5k OCI for the rest of its life. There is no need to do more. Less is better here. A good oil with clean it slowly, which is what you want. Don't use any special "cleaners." They are more likely to do harm than good. Your engine should last a long time. Really.

PS- All 1MZFE engines are non-interference (VVT-i or not). There is much misinformation about this. Some otherwise reliable websites mislabel this engine as interference when it has the VVT-i.

 

[Farmer]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Farmer
A few shorter OCIs and everything will clear up.


Not a chance. Just look at the crust. Where do these fairy tales come from?

That's why you clean the cover before putting it back on... I'm not going to argue with you, end of story.

 

[WillsYoda]

Originally Posted By: Farmer
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Farmer
A few shorter OCIs and everything will clear up.


Not a chance. Just look at the crust. Where do these fairy tales come from?

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah4/koffygt/20151104_121216_zpsfn07lsw6.jpg


That's why you clean the cover before putting it back on... I'm not going to argue with you, end of story.


Sure, the valve covers should be taken off and cleaned. The camshaft area of the cylinder head isn't that bad, though...

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah4/koffygt/20151104_121240_zpspyyw9yfy.jpg

A few shorter OCIs is probable all I would do otherwise (given it has a new PVC valve).

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Farmer
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Farmer
A few shorter OCIs and everything will clear up.


Not a chance. Just look at the crust. Where do these fairy tales come from?


That's why you clean the cover before putting it back on... I'm not going to argue with you, end of story.


Who's arguing? You're the one spreading fairy tales perpetrated by marketing. The cover is one thing, but the varnish and a bit of sludge on the heads and cam shafts are there to stay unless they're cleaned by mechanicals and harsh chemical means. No amount of short OCIs on synthetic or any other motor oil will clean this up.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Farmer
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Farmer
A few shorter OCIs and everything will clear up.


Not a chance. Just look at the crust. Where do these fairy tales come from?


That's why you clean the cover before putting it back on... I'm not going to argue with you, end of story.


Who's arguing? You're the one spreading fairy tales perpetrated by marketing. The cover is one thing, but the varnish and a bit of sludge on the heads and cam shafts are there to stay unless they're cleaned by mechanicals and harsh chemical means. No amount of short OCIs on synthetic or any other motor oil will clean this up.


I disagree, short oil changes can and will clean that up.
I wont get into what brand clean better but some clean better than others. 15-20K with shortened oil changes can really clean things up especially when its so minimal like this one.
Nothing other than a mechanical cleaning will clean a true sludge engine but this isn't one.

Tell you what, argue with Mobil and tell them they are false advertising and sue them.
Pennzoil and others have similar performance, in fact Pennzoil claims even better cleaning performance.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...s-running-clean

http://www.exxonmobil.com/AP-English/Files/about_who_Mobil1_supersyn_eng.pdf

This is one of my engines (I bought it used) I had to swap a rotted pan on. The valve train was heavily varnished. I started running one of the oils known for its cleaning ability and after a year or so the heads and valve train was clean, the piston in the middle doesn't get much splash oiling compared to the others because the pick up sits under it.

Look at one to the lower right, the varnish is almost gone and the oil has a dark red tint to it. No additive or chemicals, just oil.

 

[camrydriver111]

I agree. Clean the valve covers. Not a big deal.

 

[Joel_MD]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
One thing I found in a youtube video, that was pretty interesting on some sort of transverse Toyota product (Lexus), was take the oil pan off and set the oil pump in a tote full of kero/oil. That way it can clean the stuff off and dump everything into the big tote without having to worry about plugging up the oil pump screen. Seems like a good way to clean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41DtywLSilM

Wow, thatlooks like an effective way to clean a sludged engine.

The 2.3L in my Saab is a notorious sludge generator. Even when using synthetic oil and relatively short OCIs. Earlier this year at about 148k miles I had a Saab mechanic remove the oil pan to check for sludge and give it a good cleaning. He said it was one of the worst sludged engines he has ever seen that was still running. There was a big pyramid-shaped pile of sludge under the oil pump pickup. He cleaned it up really well, and soon after that I removed the valve cover and cleaned it too. Removing the oil pan probably saved this engine's life. I don't know how difficult it is to remove the pan on your Toyota but you may want to consider doing it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Joel_MD
I don't know how difficult it is to remove the pan on your Toyota but you may want to consider doing it.


In terms of access it's fine, there are no crossmembers or pipes in the way. However, if the Toyota FIPG is still in good shape it's a beast to separate the pan. There's a cutter tool you can get to physically cut the pan off, without that you'll never knock it loose.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
What is upgraded about the new cover?


I think it is the same cover as what was used on later 1MZ-FE engines to help alleviate the issues the earlier ones like mine had. It uses a metal screw-in PCV valve and as you can see in the pictures the baffle is different. Other than that I don't know.

This is the other side of the cover showing where the PCV valve now screws in instead of using a grommet:

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: spk2000
Pretty sure it's a non-interference engine.
Some don't like the engine flushes but I have had success with sludged up engines run right before the change.



if its the vvt-i, its an interference motor

 

[kschachn]

It's popular sentiment on the Internet that the 1MZ-FE VVT-i is interference but I don't think it is, as has already been stated. The FSM for the 2002 MY Sienna has you turning the camshafts and the crankshaft independently of each other during a timing belt change, just as you do for the non-VVT-i models. If it were an interference engine they would not have you doing that, nor could you without... interference. Most interference engines I have seen have you lock the camshafts in place so they don't move.

 

[Trav]

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/List_Of_Interference_Engines

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Trav
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/List_Of_Interference_Engines


So that agrees it isn't.

 

[Trav]

That list a 3.0 straight 6 as interference but not any 3.0 V6 so yes it would sure seem that agrees.

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: stchman


No offense, but how is a 16 year old car considered "decent".


Oh gosh... you are one of those people? The kind who just drive something into the ground without maintenance and they go and buy a brand new car because the old one "let them down".
These people never wash their cars either because hey, why bother right?

There are THOUSANDS maybe even millions of cars on the road from the 1990's that still look and run great.
My 1995 Lexus is now 20 yrs old and runs like a top.
I waxed it last month and was amazed at how the paint looks and feels like a new car.

Neighbor has a late 90's Acura NSX, mint condition. Yeh it's "decent" I guess.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: stchman


No offense, but how is a 16 year old car considered "decent".




My van is from the 80's and is still looking good and going strong.

 

[Trav]

I can attest to that. Its looks and runs great, better than many vehicles that are only a few years old.