Cheap 2-Stroke Generator For Rare Use?

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: tig1
Larger frig take about 1.8KW to 2KW to start and 4-6KW to run. The small gens you are asking about won't power your frig.


Huh? During one of the storms in 2010 we ran our fridge, freezer and a few other things from a borrowed Honda EU 2000i. It didnt sound taxed and it ran fine all day.


That goes against every chart I have seen.

 

[FXjohn]

wouldn't 4 stroke be better?

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: tig1
Larger frig take about 1.8KW to 2KW to start and 4-6KW to run. The small gens you are asking about won't power your frig.


Huh? During one of the storms in 2010 we ran our fridge, freezer and a few other things from a borrowed Honda EU 2000i. It didnt sound taxed and it ran fine all day.


That goes against every chart I have seen.


Can't speak to that but we were surprised what that little guy would run. I think none of it all started at once so it was most likely the regular old running watts, the only time the generator sounded taxed was when we ran our microwave. All other loads were disconnected then and you could tell it was working.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wouldn't 4 stroke be better?


Bigger, yes. It may last longer but the appeal of the 2 stroke is no oil to change (every 50 or so hours on a 4 stroke), just keep feeding it 50:1 mix. It may not last as long but if you use a decent oil you will get many many hours out of a 2 stroke.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wouldn't 4 stroke be better?


yes but I'd sit better knowing there were only $89 sitting on my porch attached to the other end of that extension cord waiting to be stolen.

OTOH I got a cheap 4 stroke "1500/2000 watt" for $130 or so for a third generator. It gets awful reviews but at least sips fuel and is pretty quiet. Only makes around 1100-1200 watts at full bore. It's the green one that everyone hates. this guy

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: tig1
Larger frig take about 1.8KW to 2KW to start and 4-6KW to run. The small gens you are asking about won't power your frig.


Huh? During one of the storms in 2010 we ran our fridge, freezer and a few other things from a borrowed Honda EU 2000i. It didnt sound taxed and it ran fine all day.


That goes against every chart I have seen.


Can't speak to that but we were surprised what that little guy would run. I think none of it all started at once so it was most likely the regular old running watts, the only time the generator sounded taxed was when we ran our microwave. All other loads were disconnected then and you could tell it was working.


lasted a week on a eu2000i here. my fridge, neighbor's fridge, and eventually just wired it into the house (we have a xfer switch now) which covered 3 ceiling fans, 2 floor fans, and a few CFL lamps. It did fine.

fuel consumption was about the same regardless if it ran continuously or in spurts. I guess in spurts, the fridges were at 100% duty cycle, whereas fulltime they cycled on/off. The 2000i rarely came off its base rpm, so I just let it run around the clock. It needed like 2-3 gallons per day that way.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wouldn't 4 stroke be better?


yes but I'd sit better knowing there were only $89 sitting on my porch attached to the other end of that extension cord waiting to be stolen.

OTOH I got a cheap 4 stroke "1500/2000 watt" for $130 or so for a third generator. It gets awful reviews but at least sips fuel and is pretty quiet. Only makes around 1100-1200 watts at full bore. It's the green one that everyone hates. this guy


Awww... it's CUTE. I really favor smaller gensets. you can keep the essentials running without having to burn off extra fuel. Can go a long time that way.

I kept a cable lock on mine...

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: meep

Awww... it's CUTE. I really favor smaller gensets. you can keep the essentials running without having to burn off extra fuel. Can go a long time that way.

I kept a cable lock on mine...



Right on.

Smaller is better when you can't get fuel (easily), which is the situation you will have in an outage. I don't own one, but I think these little cheap 2-stroke gens are a great idea and I'd snap one up given the right deal. I remember when you could get them for $50-70 on sale, and they were rated for 1000+ watts. I see they "de-tuned" them a bit LOL. They're more like 800w max now.

Obviously 4-stroke is better fuel economy-wise and geniune Honda is top notch, but we're talking $100 light use gens here, not $1000++ ones needed to run essential or life supporting stuff.

 

[eljefino]

What gets me are the people using them for oxygen concentrators. I got over it mostly when I realized they have bottled o2 backups... just the bottles are expensive.

A 2-stroke, by design, dumps 10-25% of its fuel out the muffler without getting energy out of it. Nature of the beast. If one plans ahead they can get fuel out of pretty much any fuel injected car. Either use the schraeder test port (use a fuel pressure tester-- splice its hose if desperate) or disconnect a quick connect and stuff a hose over the found nipple. Plan ahead, know how to jumper your pump relay, b/c the internet might be down when you need it most.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
wouldn't 4 stroke be better?

OTOH I got a cheap 4 stroke "1500/2000 watt" for $130 or so for a third generator. It gets awful reviews but at least sips fuel and is pretty quiet. Only makes around 1100-1200 watts at full bore. It's the green one that everyone hates. this guy

I have one of these. Like most of the cheap Chinese generators I have tested, the 1500/2000 watt output is WAY over rated!
After running it through a couple tanks of gas at various loads to break it in, and adjusting the engine to hold a steady 3600 RPMs at various loads, I hooked up a tachometer, a Kill-A-Watt, and several different appliances to it to test it. The MAX sustained output that I could get out of it without falling below 109 volts and 56 cycles was 1100 watts. It would only do just under 1000 watts and still hold a steady 60 cycles. NO WAY would it ever approach anywhere near 2000 surge watts either, maybe 1300 watts MAX surge output for under a second or so. I wouldn't want to run any AC induction motor off of it that pulled more than about 400 running watts because most induction motors (like those used in refrigerators/freezers) will pull 3 times their running watts to start up and you will risk burning up one of these motors if the generator won't supply not only the needed watts, but at least 109 volts and very close to 60 cycles of AC. At between 58 to 62 cycles you should be OK, but anything outside of this can destroy one of these motors. When you overload a standard generator not only does the voltage drop, but as a heavy load pulls the engine RPMs down, the AC cycles drop. The engine needs to run at a steady 3600 rpms to output a steady 60 cycles of AC current.
FYI, self defrosting refrigerators will pull about 3 times their normal running watts when they enter a defrost cycle. They are timed to go through a defrost cycle about every 8 to 16 hours of compressor run time. I have wired up a switch to my refrigerator so I can stop the defrost cycle timer when I am running it off of the generator.
BTW, I don't hate this generator, I just know it's limitations and work within them.

 

[gathermewool]

Thanks for all of the information, guys.

Seems like my best bet will be to simply ride out the outages as I've done so far. If I know a storm is coming in the next day or so, I usually put as much as I can in the freezer (as applicable) and turn both the freezer and fridge as low as they'll go. Doing this, and without opening either door, I can usually keep the temperatures down to what I consider SAT for a couple of days if it's hot, and much longer if it's cold (no heat in the condo.)

If I happen to see one of the cheap HF 2-strokes you've mentioned I'll consider buying, but it seems like a better idea to wait until the Mrs. and I move a little further away from the city soon (possibly,) where power outages are a little more common.

 

[Maximus1966]

I generally hate cheap Chinese junk, especially from Horrible Fright, but I've been impressed with my little 800/900 two stroke unit. I have an 8000W unit to run nearly the whole house, but it's a gas guzzler. We can run the refrigerator, a fan and a couple of lights day and night on the HF generator for very little fuel. The biggest pain is the relatively small fuel tank that needs refilling fairly often. I got mine at one of their "parking lot" sales for $79.99 and the clerk let me use a 20% off coupon. I wish I would have gotten two now.

 

[Cujet]

I have 2 of those Hazard Fraught 2 cycle generators. They are capable little machines in the right hands.

As mentioned above, the spark plug they come with is junk. Also the fuel line is junk and needs to be replaced.

Another item is the rectifier (just a simple "full wave bridge" from any electronics store) If your little 2 stroke genset does not make full voltage under load (about 800W) , when set to produce 60HZ, spend the $2 and purchase a new rectifier.

I've got some time on mine now, and they continue to perform properly. Some disaster stories are due to owners using gas without oil. Most are spark plug related. Very few of these things actually fail mechanically.

Also, there is at least one of these units out there with 4000 hours on it. He runs "off grid" and uses it to charge batteries, under constant, but modest load.

 

[Errtt]

Well I like my little 2kw inverter generator. In the econ mode, the rpm runs depending on demand, no demand it idles. Rpm increase as load demand increases. This can be a real fuel saver when low demands are utilized. For the heaver sudden surge demands, the boost (max rpm) can be used to better handle it.
Non inverter generators, the frequency is dependent on engine speed (rpm) in relation to the number of generator poles.
I keep marine stabil in the fuel, still, exercise the gen monthly.

 

[wag123]

Without a doubt inverter generators are the way to go, IF you can afford one. Cleaner and more stable output, quieter, and much more economical to operate.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Without a doubt inverter generators are the way to go, IF you can afford one. Cleaner and more stable output, quieter, and much more economical to operate.


I love the little Honda's. However, I'm not at all certain the price premium would ever be made up by the inverter units better fuel specifics.

Lets do the math? Gas $4/gal.

HF test at 700w load: 2.8KWH/gal (800W Harbor Freight 2 stroke generator)

Honda test at 225W load: 3.1KWH/gal (Honda EU1000i inverter generator)
Honda test at 900W Load: 5.7KWH/gal "" ""

It's not easy to provide a direct comparison, but the honda is roughly twice as efficient as the HF generator. However, at low loads, my HF generator can easily make 8 hours on a 1.3 gallon tank.

At a consumption rate of one quart per hour, the HF generator certainly wont break the bank. The maximum savings seems to be on the order of 3 gallons per 24 hour use/day. Or, $12/day savings. The $800 premium would take 1600 hours or 67 days of operation to break even.

 

[HerrStig]

I've seen the waveforms from inverter gensets and they are often closer to a not so desirable square wave in many cases than electromechanical units. Filament lightbulbs and heaters don't much care, things with transformer windings might.

 

[wag123]

Have you seen the waveform of the output from one of the cheap Chinese generators? It is very scary looking!

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Have you seen the waveform of the output from one of the cheap Chinese generators? It is very scary looking!


Actually, I checked my 800W HF generator wave form, it's quite satisfactory. The waveform is not exactly perfect, but it's not far off the mark. Certainly not "scary". It does not have any significant distortions, or sawtooth ramps. It's a conventional sine wave.

I did change the bridge rectifier with a higher quality unit.

 

[mattwithcats]

Rinse some two liter soda bottles out, fill with water, and put in freezer beforehand...

Move bottles to fridge side as needed to maintain cold.

Use as drinking water when thawed...