Changed oil on yamaha, now clutch SLIPS!!!!!!!!!!

[Fordiesel69]

We have a 1987 Yamaha Moto 4. Its a YFM-350ERT and is basically the 2wd version of the big bear.

Anyways the book calls for 10w-30 API SF or greater. I used 5w-50 Pennsoil Performax Synthetic because I had it since 99 and figured it was an older technology oil. It cuases the clutch to shift while shifting. So what modern oil can I buy that will prevent this?

IT has a large wet centrifugal, then it has a set of typical clutches like a dirt bike that open when you pull up or down on the shifter. Its an odd design but worked well all this time up until now.

 

[bepperb]

Technically an oil certified for JASO-MA. The most common of those are the Rotella oils. "Energy Conserving" oils have been around longer than 10 years and that's what you want to stay away from, I'd assume your 5-30 is (and it will say so on the API donut) since in 99 that would have been probably the thinnest oil available at a retail store.

 

[Fordiesel69]

I used 5w-50 not 5w-30.

It did not say JASO-MA or "Energy Conserving".

 

[bepperb]

Well, that makes more sense. A 5-50 could never be "energy conserving" but they could have added a lot of friction reducing additives.

I still think you should be able to drain and fill with some HDEO and be good to go.

 

[DB_Cooper]

Being a 5w50 it probably had a good load of Moly. That stuff works great and will cause your clutch slip.

You may get lucky and if you change to a good HDEO (Rotella) and ride it for a while, the Moly may wash off and you will get your clutch back. Count on a couple of oil changes to see if it works.

 

[Fordiesel69]

I just releized I posted this in the wrong forum. What an idiot......

 

[Fordiesel69]

Would SEA 30 work better? I can warm the engine up before I ride it to get the oil flowing if needed.

Its kinda cold blooded anyways so a warmup to prevent damage from the mono oil would not be all that bad.

 

[Smokescreen]

I wouldn't.

Try Rotella or another HDEO 15w40 for a couple of changes to more inexpensively wash off the 5w50...

 

[JimPghPA]

The trouble is that if it takes a few oil changes to get that oil out of the clutch pack you probably will destroy the clutch due to the slipping while riding, between those oil changes.

The proper fix for this problem is to pull the engine, remove the clutch and clean all parts with something that will cut the oil, such as parts cleaner, Dissemble the motor and clean every part with something that will remove the oil, and then pre-lube with a JASO-MA rated oil like Rotella T6 5W-40, or Rotella T5 15W-40 and assemble and fill with the same Rotella.

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If you are not going to remove the engine and clean its insides and remove the clutch pack and clean all the parts, then I would try something with a low first number like Rotella T6 5W-40 because it might do a little better job of dislodging and absorbing the oil that is in it now.

Even better for removing the oil that is in it now might be a JASO-MA rated 5W-30. The idea being that the thinner the oil is the better chance of it dislodging and absorbing the oil that is in it now.

Years ago someone I know put STP oil treatment in a small motorcycle and he had to completely disassemble the motor and clutch and clean every part, and then put it all back together. That was his winter project.

You may or may not get it to come around by changing to a thinner oil that is JASO-MA rated, but if it continues to slip, it will probably fry the clutch if you continue to ride it.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The trouble is that if it takes a few oil changes to get that oil out of the clutch pack you probably will destroy the clutch due to the slipping while riding, between those oil changes.

The proper fix for this problem is to pull the engine, remove the clutch and clean all parts with something that will cut the oil, such as parts cleaner, Dissemble the motor and clean every part with something that will remove the oil, and then pre-lube with a JASO-MA rated oil like Rotella T6 5W-40,
or Rotella T5 15W-40 and assemble and fill with the same Rotella.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are not going to remove the engine and clean its insides and remove the clutch pack and clean all the parts, then I would try something with a low first number like Rotella T6 5W-40 because it might do a little better job of dislodging and absorbing the oil that is in it now.

Even better for removing the oil that is in it now might be a JASO-MA rated 5W-30. The idea being that the thinner the oil is the better chance of it dislodging and absorbing the oil that is in it now.

Years ago someone I know put STP oil treatment in a small motorcycle and he had to completely disassemble the motor and clutch and clean every part, and then put it all back together. That was his winter project.

You may or may not get it to come around by changing to a thinner oil that is JASO-MA rated, but if it continues to slip, it will probably fry the clutch if you continue to ride it.

Interesting. I didn't know that any stp oil treatments even had moly in them. I've used the stp blue bottle in my old yamaha v-star,and my Honda shadow and never had a clutch issue.
Op. Maybe seafoam will clean the suspected moly from the clutch disk,when used with conventional rotella. It will thin the oil and clean. Worth a shot. Cheaper than a rebuild if it works

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The trouble is that if it takes a few oil changes to get that oil out of the clutch pack you probably will destroy the clutch due to the slipping while riding, between those oil changes.

The proper fix for this problem is to pull the engine, remove the clutch and clean all parts with something that will cut the oil, such as parts cleaner, Dissemble the motor and clean every part with something that will remove the oil, and then pre-lube with a JASO-MA rated oil like Rotella T6 5W-40,
or Rotella T5 15W-40 and assemble and fill with the same Rotella.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are not going to remove the engine and clean its insides and remove the clutch pack and clean all the parts, then I would try something with a low first number like Rotella T6 5W-40 because it might do a little better job of dislodging and absorbing the oil that is in it now.

Even better for removing the oil that is in it now might be a JASO-MA rated 5W-30. The idea being that the thinner the oil is the better chance of it dislodging and absorbing the oil that is in it now.

Years ago someone I know put STP oil treatment in a small motorcycle and he had to completely disassemble the motor and clutch and clean every part, and then put it all back together. That was his winter project.

You may or may not get it to come around by changing to a thinner oil that is JASO-MA rated, but if it continues to slip, it will probably fry the clutch if you continue to ride it.

Interesting. I didn't know that any stp oil treatments even had moly in them. I've used the stp blue bottle in my old yamaha v-star,and my Honda shadow and never had a clutch issue.
Op. Maybe seafoam will clean the suspected moly from the clutch disk,when used with conventional rotella. It will thin the oil and clean. Worth a shot. Cheaper than a rebuild if it works


Re: the thinner is better, in this case he has a thick oil that combined with the additives causes the clutch to slip, and a thinner oil will cut/ reduce the over all viscosity, hopefully enough to get enough of the thick oil to leave the working surfaces within the clutch.

If he did not have this ongoing problem thin would not be better.

Heck pure alcohol, (you can get 100 percent alcohol (that would be 200 proof and deadly to drink) with a denaturing agent at some hardware stores, some will have to order it for you, and a real chemist can get 100 percent alcohol without the denaturing agent) would probably be the best thing to put in there to get the existing oil to leave the clutch surfaces, but it would be way too thin to start the engine with it in there.

 

[yeehaw1960]

Drain it and put petroleum oil back in it! Get it good and hot and ride it a little and drain the oil and put petroleum back it it again. You might luck out. I watched a tough guy at the Harley shop well up with real tears when they told him that his putting synthetic in his bike after running it with normal petroleum for years was why his clutch was slipping. His had to be replaced. Let the argument begin!

 

[JimPghPA]

BTW, if you did put alcohol in it beware that the flash point is way too low to operate the engine. With alcohol, It would only take one spark and you would have a major fire, and alcohol can burn with an invisible flame.

 

[JimPghPA]

The example with the STP oil treatment was back around 1972. The bike was small, I don't remember the exact size but I think it was less than 100 CC. The rider/owner was an over weight teenager and the STP looked like honey and was thick like cold molasses. I don't know if it had moly in it, but we have a lot of hills here in Pittsburgh, and there was even a hill that the owner had to go up just to leave where he lived. With the STP in it, the undersized over worked clutch for the size of the rider, could not go up the hill for the owner to leave his property.

 

[JimPghPA]

If it were mine, someplace where it is very warm or even hot like a garage with a torpedo heater aimed in the direction of the engine for a while to get it hot, I would drain as much oil from the bike that you can get out (let it drain for a long time) you might even try working the clutch once the oil draining was down to a trickle. Turn off the heater for safety and, I would get a gallon of denatured alcohol from a hardware store and over fill the engine with the alcohol. Work the clutch lever, and drain and work the clutch lever some more. Over fill with 5W-30 JASO-MA rated. Work the clutch, drain and work the clutch. Fill with 5W-30 JASO-MA and run it till hot. Drain and refill. And if that did not get it to stop slipping, it is time for a tear down and cleaning.

 

[JimPghPA]

BTW, several months ago I wrote a warning here on BITOG about the possibility of a wet clutch slipping with a non JASO-MA oil and several others wrote that I was wrong, basically saying that it would never happen.

 

[Trav]

You might try getting some cheap dino like Supertech and adding a bit of Berrymans Chemtool to it. Depending on oil capacity it may only need a few oz of chemtool.
Start the engine, let it idle for a few min, work the clutch then change the oil.

Do not rev the engine or drive it, it should remove whatever is causing the clutch to slip.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Im really mad about all the rain. I can;t even work on it becuase there is no way to drive it to test after the oil change.

 

[Pistol_Pete]

You need the JASO-MA specified oil in that crankcase, I would recommend not to use it until you do so. It doesnt matter if its mineral or synthetic, just as long as it JASO-MA rated.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: yeehaw1960
Drain it and put petroleum oil back in it! Get it good and hot and ride it a little and drain the oil and put petroleum back it it again. You might luck out. I watched a tough guy at the Harley shop well up with real tears when they told him that his putting synthetic in his bike after running it with normal petroleum for years was why his clutch was slipping. His had to be replaced. Let the argument begin!

No way will I use anything but rotella in my primary. The Harley forum I'm in some idiots think they can use mobil 1 15w-50 in their primary,or tranny fluid. Tranny fluid contains friction modifiers and the mobil 1 15w-50 contains moly. Try to tell them it's a bad idea and I get the "I've been doing it for years in all my bikes" comment. But they trade in their bikes every couple years and only ride 10000 miles a year. So the next guy gets their junk.
Funny