Castrol Syntec 5w-30, 2500 mi., '98 LS1

[Mr_Incredible]

LS1 Thin oil test. Test 2 of 2.

Miles on oil.....3342....2316.....2486....
Miles on unit...90,068...94343...96,829..

................M1TrSUV...HavDS....Castrol.....uavg
................5w-40.......5w-30....5w-30
Element
alum............3..........2..........3.............4
chromium.....1..........0..........0.............1
iron...........19..........3..........4............15
copper........4..........2..........2............34
lead............0..........0..........0.............7
tin..............0..........0..........0.............2
moly............6.........142.......105...........60
nickel..........1..........0..........0.............1
mang............1..........0..........0............2
silver..........0..........0..........0.............0
titanium........0..........0..........0.............0
potassium.....3..........0..........1.............1
boron.........32.........28........36.............68
silicon..........8..........4..........5.............6
sodium........3..........1..........5.............6
calcium......2503.......1628......2962.........2310
magnes.......460........44.........19..........290
phosph......1077........547.......646..........736
zinc..........1299........689.......747.........879
barium........0...........0........0..........0

Visc (56-62)...73.7,,,55.8,,,,59.1
Flash >365.....445...,,435,,,,,405
Fuel Antifreeze......0.......0.......0
Water...........0.......0.......0
Insolubles.... 0.5%... 0.2%....0.3%


Blackstone Comments: Wear continued to read well below universal averages and in the proper balance. The low and steady wear trends that your 5.7L produces are a very good indicator that your engine is operated and maintained well. The oil was in good shape physically, containing no moisture, fuel, or coolant. Insolubles, (oil oxidation due to heat, use, and blow-by) were low at 0.3%, showing good oil filtration. Silicon read normally so your air filter is getting the job done, too. At 96,829 miles we have no problems to report. This is a nice engine!

My Comments: This was the final test of two of the thinnest 5w-30 oils I could find to put in my LS1. The idea was to see if the LS1 could live a normal life without GC or a 40w oil in its belly. I think it is, in fact, very do-able. Temps have been in the 90's here in Omaha, and the car is used as a daily driver. I often sit in the parking lot at work and idle while I finish my cigar before going in and it doesn't seem to have added any fuel, but there was a long drive to Rapid City and back, so I'm sure that drove any fuel away. The daily drive is anywhere from 12 to 22 miles, depending on which way I take. I have a heavy foot so the oil hasn't been babied. I don't, however, mash the gas until oil gets to op temp.

Observations: The engine revved quickly but felt/sounded thrashy. Frantic, even. It doesn't look like it did any harm, but it wasn't what I was used to. I have GC in it right now and the motor feels back to its solid and smooth self.

Thought of the day...It worked for me, but I don't live in the extremely hot South and I didn't beat on the motor like a teenager that didn't have to buy it. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. Be kind, don't litter.

Thanks for your time.

 

[ATS-V]

Thin seems to work better for you. I'd be willing to bet that a run of 5w20 Redline would work well for you.

 

[LoneRanger]

Have you tried Quaker State Q-Horsepower in it yet?

 

[Mr_Incredible]

No, I have not, LR. Nor do I plan to do any other tests other than the occasional health checkup.

I simply chose the two thinnest 30w's on the oil visc chart and tried them out. The aim was to see how they did since the prevailing wisdom on other LS1 sites is that you can't go that thin with LS1s and live to tell the tale.

To have done this well in a random motor that's just shy of 100,000 miles pretty much dispells that myth for me.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

I was running M1 in my 99 SS camaro (LS1). When I purchased the car it had 36K on the clock. At that time it had dino oil in it and it didnt have any piston slap at all. I changed to M1 and didnt put 2 and 2 together when I started to hear piston slap. I just chaulked it up to another noisey LS1 which is very common. Well I just changed my oil and I now have 59K on it. I changed it with 10W-30 MaxLife blend and the piston slap went 100% away.

After I realised it was the M1 oil causing the piston slap (it never went 100% away even after fully warmed up) I hopped on LS1.cpm and found a ton of other people that had the same thing happen to them.

 

[98LSC32V]

Piston slap is a mechanical issue, the type of oil you use may improve the sound slightly but there is no way the type of oil you use can cause the problem or solve it. I don't believe that for a second.

 

[Steve S]

'cept for the iron which is a M1 trait the numbers are about the same. Doing a mental adjustment for the difference in sample miles.More miles on the samples would show more info as these numbers are just the noise from the testing machine.

 

[Mr_Incredible]

I agree, Steve S, that the numbers are pretty much the same if mentally adjusted for miles. But that's a good thing for my purposes.

Even though the owner's manual says to use 5w or 10w-30 the predominant idea in the LS1 owner's forum(s) is that the LS1 will practically spontaneously combust (or at least grind itself to a halt) if you don't use a thick oil. Thick in this case to mean a viscosity of GC and above.

I didn't believe it and set out to disprove it in a randomly chosen high-miles LS1. I only have one engine, and not all the time in the world (hence the short intervals). I did what I could to take one for the team in forwarding the information on thin oils in the LS1.

What I take away from these two UOAs is that a person (or at least I) can use any Xw-30 in any stock LS1 in any but the most extreme conditions and not give it a second thought. There's no need to take extensive road trips to hunt down GC. There's no need to agonize over which oil will keep your baby happy and safe. The two thinnest work ok, so anything more viscous than they are will work as well or better.

At least, that's what I see here...

 

[JAG]

Very nice. I said this before but this engine was developed for thin 30 weight oils so this is what I expect.

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Quote:

---

Piston slap is a mechanical issue, the type of oil you use may improve the sound slightly but there is no way the type of oil you use can cause the problem or solve it. I don't believe that for a second.

---

I know what piston slap is. I build race engines for myself and friends. I dont know what else to tell you other than the piston slap went 100% away when I switched from M1 10W-30 to MaxLife 10W30. A simple search on LS1.com will show you many many other people that have had the same experiance as me.

Now honestly I can not explain why this is other than maybe the fact that M1 is so "runny" if you will that it doesnt coat the rings well (doesnt stick and stay in place). This also may explain why M1 UOA's have been less than stellar showing high iron. Its to runny for some engines and doesnt act as a "buffer" between the piston and cylinder wall which causes and audible piston slap and high iron wear.

 

[Mr_Incredible]

I had completely forgotten about piston slap while using the two thin oils. Now that I have GC back in it I'm starting to hear it again.

I haven't put any brain power to trying to understand it. It doesn't matter much to me.

 

[jeepman]

I love this Havoline DS formula. We keep seeing on recent UOA's it performs as well or better than a synthetic at twice the price. So much for thinking it was too thin, as this LS1 proved even with the lower vis, it still performs as well as the Syntec, and better than M1. Chevron/Texaco seems to have really done their homework with the add pack for this oil. I have this in both cars now and am not looking back...

 

[teven7492]

jeepman couldn't have said it better my self. Havoline proves that you dont need to use an overpriced and over rated synthetic to get great engine protection, and keep in mind GM states to use a full synthetic in this engine. Havoline kicked Mobil 1's but in iron wear.

 

[Mr_Incredible]

Quote:

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...keep in mind GM states to use a full synthetic in this engine.

---

This is not the case for my 1998 Z28. The owner's manual only states to use oil with the starburst and in the correct viscosity range of 0w-30 for -20* weather, 5w-30 is best, and 10w-30 if you wish when temps are above 0*.

Doesn't say anything about synthetic anywhere.


It does say not to use 20w-50, though.

 

[Patman]

Very nice! My theory that the LS1 prefers thicker oils is getting proven wrong more often than not lately! I'm glad to hear it though, since I'm running PP 5w30 in mine, which is a relatively thin 10.3 cst at 100c.

I do notice more valvetrain noise though, compared to GC, however I'm hoping that doesn't show up as higher wear numbers. I'll have my first UOA with PP around October or November.

 

[JAG]

How clean does this engine look inside? My comment is triggered by the 0.5% insolubles in the short OCI using M1 5W-40.

 

[Mr_Incredible]

Thank you for your comments, Patman.

I have several changes of PP waiting in the stash for their turn. Some is the newer formula, some the old. Some 5w-30, some 10w-30. I first have to work my way through two more changes of the GC that I got on sale a while back. I can't imagine any of the PP doing badly.

I wish I'd had the time and inclination to run the two thin oils longer to get more decisive numbers, but I have too many irons in the fire lately and wanted to get it out of the way. Though the intervals were shortened I think they were long enough to get an idea of how thin 30w's work in the LS1.

I think the only metal that was trending a little higher than the TrSuv was aluminum, and it wasn't going to be out of line. All the others looked like they would have been stellar. I'm happy to see the copper as low as it is, what with that being in issue with lower mileage LS1s.

Iron was very good, but I could have just spit on the motor and done better on iron that M1.

Overall, I'm pleased with the results and happy to have provided data for those with an interest. I won't feel bad using any oil thicker than the two I used, which, of course, is every 30w on the list.

Happy Friday to all!

 

[Mr_Incredible]

Jag, it doesn't look sparkly clean. I'm disappointed, too. I don't see sludge or buildup, only varnish.

Prior to the M1 TrSuv I was using M1 5w-30. I've only had the car since 67k/Mar05. It was a norther tier leased car for a while and I'm the fourth owner (maybe third, I can't remember right now). The car didn't look abused, but I doubt if previous owners had done oil changes like I've been doing since I got it.

I did the ARX thing a while back post-M1 TrSuv, and the two thin oils were the rinses. I had spectacular results in my truck's V10, and it DID turn out sparkly clean. The LS1, on the other hand, did not. I can't tell any difference.

With the basic functions of ARX having done so well in one motor I'm pretty sure all the important bits have been cleaned as well as they're going to get. But the cosmetic functions under the valve cover are nil on this one.

 

[JAG]

Thanks for the response. Based on that, i'm thinking the condition of the engine during the M1 run made that UOA a bit "worse for wear" (no pun intended but I guess I could have intended it for humor).

Auto-RX has done a lot of cleaning in some engines and not others, as your experience indicated. It did some good in my mother's sludged BMW, but it still could benefit from a second application.

FWIW, my father-in-law has a 2000 Vette and I looked under the oil fill cap and saw crud (black crusty material). These things happen and engines get dirty but I think many people who look at UOAs make bad conclusions about what's really going on: unjustified praise, unjustified criticism, etc. Deposit prevention doesn't get enough focus.

 

[buster]

Quote:

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think many people who look at UOAs make bad conclusions about what's really going on: unjustified praise, unjustified criticism, etc. Deposit prevention doesn't get enough focus

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Most definitely. One of the things the RLI stuff is apparently good at is keeping the engine extremely clean due to it's 30% bio ester base.