Canola Follow-up

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KeMBro2012 -
Your experiments are of little interest to me, honestly. But, if your'e going to do these things, then it would bolster your claims if you actually had data and pictures to back them up. I read your statement about your roommate now driving the former car after many experiments of the alternative lube, but I see no "proof" of your claims. Wheres the data? Where's the photos from under the valve cover, etc? I am not saying you're wrong, but I see nothing to show you've had any success, either. At some point, we all operate on faith in others claims on the internet, but at least it makes your position more credible if you can show details beyond words.

Speaking of words, the ones you may not find objectionable others still do; especially the site owner. So refrain from their use, or else.
 
In the past I've used a mix of vegetable oil and diesel fuel as an anti-rust treatment, and noticed that after long storage this would throw a gel-like deposit (presumably polymerised vegetable oil) which could be re-suspended in the oil by vigorous shaking. It didn't seem to get any more solid with longer storage after that, unlike "straight" vegetable oil which eventually sets into a plastic-like coating.

I wondered if being dispersed in the diesel fuel was limiting the polymerisation and/or coalescence and stopping the material forming a solid mass. In that state it MIGHT serve as a solid lubricant, like Slick 50 was supposed to work.

I was going to try it as a motorcycle chain lube (relatively low risk), but spilt the lot during the first application and didn't have the patience to wait a few years to make more.

It doesn't seem very likely that use in an operating engine could reverse oxidative polymerisation of your canola oil, but I'd speculate that it might have sheared and dispersed the partially polymerised oil. Keep doing that and eventually all its reactive sites MIGHT have reacted and you MIGHT end up with a relatively stable dispersed semi-solid lubricant.
 
The above is a (rather speculative) potential upside.

The potential downside is less speculative, since this experiment has already been accidentally made by people running diesel engines on unmodified vegetable oil.

Anecdotally the effects include the oil gelling in the sump due to fuel dilution, leading to oil starvation damage, and coked piston rings allowing the engine to ingest its own sump oil. It then revs its nuts off until something breaks or the operator manages to cut off its air supply.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
KeMBro2012 -
Your experiments are of little interest to me, honestly. But, if your'e going to do these things, then it would bolster your claims if you actually had data and pictures to back them up. I read your statement about your roommate now driving the former car after many experiments of the alternative lube, but I see no "proof" of your claims. Wheres the data? Where's the photos from under the valve cover, etc? I am not saying you're wrong, but I see nothing to show you've had any success, either. At some point, we all operate on faith in others claims on the internet, but at least it makes your position more credible if you can show details beyond words.

Speaking of words, the ones you may not find objectionable others still do; especially the site owner. So refrain from their use, or else.


Yeah, life kind of got in the way of completing that experiment. Thus round two with this vehicle.

When I left my job and began freelancing, there was a nearly two year window of time where I was too busy to continue with the writeups and posting here; then there was a 3 year period where my wife and I were down to a single vehicle mostly for the fact that I never drove the [censored] thing and it was a waste to keep it around.

As for data, I posted the one UOA I managed to get -- IN THIS VERY THREAD. It looks like Photobucket has removed the image due to age at this point, but it was there for a few years. I did (recently) find the oil sample that I never got around to sending in, but figured it was no longer viable. Otherwise there would be two OUAs. But it's really disingenuous of you to say there's no data. I posted what data I was able to collect and I'm sorry I didn't have the means to send in daily samples or whatever you might think is enough. This also isn't the only thread I've posted on this subject; perhaps you're missing the point? Just in case: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2963904/1

You have to remember that the whole canola thing started as me looking for something to think out T6 for use in an engine calling for 5w30. Everything that has built up since then was just me screwing around, and the scientific eye didn't come until way later. The tests on the second engine, a 2.3l Lima in a Ford Ranger, will have a different approach, as I'm starting with a different perspective and have different goals.

If you want data, please specify, in the next month or so, what data you would like me to track. If it won't take an unreasonable amount of time or incur unreasonable costs to collect (or you are willing to donate your time and/or money to cover that) I'll be more than happy to oblige when the 2.3l Lima experiment begins.

And pictures? Every time someone posts pictures to show whether their oil cleaned, did nothing, or made the problem worse, all we hear is that they're of no value due to changed in lighting and white balance. That's sure what *I* heard when I posted them previously, and I've certainly seen a lot of other people get the same response to their before and after shots.

That said, there were photos in an earlier thread. I never got to take after shots; sadly, as I fell they would have quieted a lot of the dissent here. Of course, then, everyone would be screaming "it's the T6 that did the cleaning, not the canola" which may freakin' well be right. But, I'd remind you all that this *did* start as a way to thin out the T6 so it could get into clogged oil passages in the first place, which still makes it a success. Strainght T6 would have blown this engine apart.

I also don't have the time to do a full teardown and rebuild of the 2.3l Lima engine before I start. I wish I did, but it wouldn't really show much as it's fairly clean inside, from what I've seen working on it since April. A rebuild *is* already planned once I find a house and another vehicle to drive (and, now, once this experiment concludes) and there will be *PLENTY* of photos showing the presence, or absence, of any canola-related deposits, wear, and/or damage at that time.

Until then... Mods, can we lock this? I regret waking this beast from its years-long slumber.
 
Don't be discouraged, KeMBro. Keep doing what you're doing. I, for one, am interested to see what happens, and feel that what you're doing has value.

FWIW - Mods, I hope you will keep this unlocked so that positive discussion can continue.
 
Oh, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing. Whether or not I post about it here, that's another issue. Thank you for your support.

It's really sad when people attack things like this as though the poster is selling something or trying to prove something when, in reality, they're just SHARING THEIR EXPERIENCE.

Such toxicity here, and for what purpose?
 
The concern is that it's not a very safe experiment, and we don't want people copying it without being aware of the consequences. The world is filled with baloney testimonials, so caution is warranted.
 
Yup, I've acknowledged as much, and the point was made well enough 5 years ago. It really doesn't need to be repeated every other freakin' post.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
The concern is that it's not a very safe experiment, and we don't want people copying it without being aware of the consequences. The world is filled with baloney testimonials, so caution is warranted.


I figured this was the motivation behind all the negative posts, but let's be honest here, if we were really concerned about people copying without being aware of the consequences, a whole heck of a lot of threads on here would have to be deleted.

.. and on tons of other forum sites, too.

My take is, OP is trying to share something interesting, and it's on the rest of us to be reasonable, intelligent human beings and take it all with the appropriate grains of salt.
 
Maybe, maybe not. Supplementing a stout motor oil with something that is not motor oil, for instance, is not the same this as switching completely to a product that isn't motor oil in the first place.

None of the additives discussed in this forum are motor oil, and I didn't switch completely to canola, so I think SitTanon's point stands. You'll note that you are reading the "OTC and Third Party Oil Additives" forum and not the PCMO forum, and that I only ran 25%, which is the same ratio Marvel recommends.

Do you see people doing this crap in MMO threads?

No?

Well, then...
 
Yes, I do that in the MMO threads myself.
wink.gif
 
I'm generally not a fan of additives and/or tampering with a fully formulated motor oil. MMO, for instance, was most useful when ND motor oils were the norm. The bulk of other additives are simply thickeners and additive package diluents, so I'm not a fan of buying a perfectly good motor oil, and then spending another wad of cash on something that is deleterious.
 
I've personally had MMO unstick lifters, free up a stuck VVT cam, and unclog a stuffed up injector. Never had it do any harm, though. Maybe open your mind a bit or learn to just stay away from things you don't like? No need to be toxic.
 
Originally Posted by KeMBro2012
I've personally had MMO unstick lifters, free up a stuck VVT cam, and unclog a stuffed up injector. Never had it do any harm, though. Maybe open your mind a bit or learn to just stay away from things you don't like? No need to be toxic.

You seem to think that anyone who criticizes a silly endeavor to be either a hater or in this instance, "toxic". Yes I think using canola oil in an engine is a silly experiment. You need to be open that possibility and also open to the potential that someone who thinks the same way I do might state that opinion, especially when you post it to a public message board.
 
No, I'm fine with that and thank you for chiming in. What I take issue with is the SAME person posting the SAME opinion REPEATEDLY throughout the thread. Or people who just go into every additive thread to post negativity because they don't like additives in general.

Notice how I welcomed MolaKule and other dissenters into the thread initially. Then, notice how I only ended up having an issue with MolaKule. Then, take note of what I state the actual issue *is* and realize that nobody else here was really doing that until Garak dropped in, which I also took issue with.

I'm certainly open to any new information, positive or negative. The second time you say something, though, it's no longer new, and I'd get just as annoyed if I had cheerleaders here, as they really and truly add nothing to the discussion.

EDIT: If you think I need to open my mind up to the possibility that this whole thing is silly, you clearly haven't read the thread. Please do so. I acknowledged that from the very start, along with everything people are still, 5 years later, after it's said and done, going on about. Nothing said since I revived this thread is new.
 
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Originally Posted by Kembro2012
...I've had Mobil 1 graciously bow out ofter only 3 months of service and this oil was still going strong after 3.5, until I parked it...



Just curious as to how you determined Mobil 1 "bowed-out": after three months of service? BTW, I am no particular fan of Mobil 1.



Originally Posted by Kembro2012
My (inconclusive) analysis, at this point, is that canola is a good (I'd like to say excellent, but won't without numbers to back it up) additive for a daily driven vehicle, but horrible for a short-tripper or rarely-driven car. My basis for this is the consistency of performance and lack of apparent degradation, even under high-stress, high-load driving conditions, while I was frequently driving the car, coupled with the rapid deterioration of the oil when left to sit.


Another question: If the oil degrades after sitting how can you conclude that the oil has any efficacy by then running it under high stress, high rpm conditions?
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Just curious as to how you determined Mobil 1 "bowed-out": after three months of service? BTW, I am no particular fan of Mobil 1.

3k mile UOA. Just happened to coincide with the 3mo mark as well.

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Another question: If the oil degrades after sitting how can you conclude that the oil has any efficacy by then running it under high stress, high rpm conditions?

I hate to answer a question with a question, but... When I use the word "inconclusive", how can you conclude that I've concluded anything?

You very clearly have a bone to pick and I'm just going to let the ignore feature do its job from here on out.
 
Originally Posted by Kenbro2012
My basis for this is the consistency of performance and lack of apparent degradation, even under high-stress, high-load driving conditions, while I was frequently driving the car, coupled with the rapid deterioration of the oil when left to sit.


You accused me earlier of repeating myself, and now you accuse me of bone picking.


I am doing neither as I am simply asking some valid questions as to how you arrive at your declarations.
 
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