Bought a '07 Harlet Heritage Softail Classic !!
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Would MC 5-20 be OK????
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
Havoline is a group III oil. Read the archives here, and learn!
If you're talking about conventional Havoline 20w50, it is not all Group III. It's impossible to make a 20w50 from all Group III.
What is Castrol Syntec 20W50? I know it's not a group IV oil, and it couldn't be less than a group III, or else it wouldn't qualify to be called a synthetic...
Harley Syn3 is also a group III base.
And by all credible reports, so is Havoline 20W50.
Dan
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
Havoline is a group III oil. Read the archives here, and learn!
If you're talking about conventional Havoline 20w50, it is not all Group III. It's impossible to make a 20w50 from all Group III.
What is Castrol Syntec 20W50? I know it's not a group IV oil, and it couldn't be less than a group III, or else it wouldn't qualify to be called a synthetic...
Harley Syn3 is also a group III base.
And by all credible reports, so is Havoline 20W50.
Dan
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
What is Castrol Syntec 20W50? I know it's not a group IV oil, and it couldn't be less than a group III, or else it wouldn't qualify to be called a synthetic...
Harley Syn3 is also a group III base.
And by all credible reports, so is Havoline 20W50.
Dan
Syntec 20w50 is a cocktail of Group III, IV, and V.
Harley Syn3 is a blend of PAO and Bright Stock (Group I).
Havoline 20w50 is Group II.
What is Castrol Syntec 20W50? I know it's not a group IV oil, and it couldn't be less than a group III, or else it wouldn't qualify to be called a synthetic...
Harley Syn3 is also a group III base.
And by all credible reports, so is Havoline 20W50.
Dan
Syntec 20w50 is a cocktail of Group III, IV, and V.
Harley Syn3 is a blend of PAO and Bright Stock (Group I).
Havoline 20w50 is Group II.
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
What is Castrol Syntec 20W50? I know it's not a group IV oil, and it couldn't be less than a group III, or else it wouldn't qualify to be called a synthetic...
I have news for you....you can call anything a synthetic..
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
What is Castrol Syntec 20W50? I know it's not a group IV oil, and it couldn't be less than a group III, or else it wouldn't qualify to be called a synthetic...
I have news for you....you can call anything a synthetic..
G-Man, we can't just take your word for this!
Give us your source on the Havoline...
I'm fairly certain you're wrong--no disrespect intended.
But a credible, cogent source will vindicate you.
All other Havoline dino oils have been moved to group III. Since all that is needed is VI's to get the viscosity up, I'm not thinking Havoline would use a totally different base for their 20W50 oils. They make no mention of doing such on their webpage...
Whatever the 20W50 Havoline is, it's doing a perfectly adequate job in my Harley. But you're the first guy I've heard say it's a group II oil... (?)
Dan
Give us your source on the Havoline...
I'm fairly certain you're wrong--no disrespect intended.
But a credible, cogent source will vindicate you.
All other Havoline dino oils have been moved to group III. Since all that is needed is VI's to get the viscosity up, I'm not thinking Havoline would use a totally different base for their 20W50 oils. They make no mention of doing such on their webpage...
Whatever the 20W50 Havoline is, it's doing a perfectly adequate job in my Harley. But you're the first guy I've heard say it's a group II oil... (?)
Dan
Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
G-Man, we can't just take your word for this!
Give us your source on the Havoline...
I'm fairly certain you're wrong--no disrespect intended.
But a credible, cogent source will vindicate you.
All other Havoline dino oils have been moved to group III. Since all that is needed is VI's to get the viscosity up, I'm not thinking Havoline would use a totally different base for their 20W50 oils. They make no mention of doing such on their webpage...
Whatever the 20W50 Havoline is, it's doing a perfectly adequate job in my Harley. But you're the first guy I've heard say it's a group II oil... (?)
Dan
I don't read here as much as I used to, so what is your source for saying that Havoline is all Grp III now?
My source for all three oils listed above is the MSDS for each.
As for making a 20w50 from all Grp III: The reason it can't be done is that Group III is only made in a narrow viscosity cut, roughly 5 to 8 cst. You simply can't make a 20w50 from a blend of 5 to 8 cst basestocks, I don't care how much VI improver you dump in.
G-Man, we can't just take your word for this!
Give us your source on the Havoline...
I'm fairly certain you're wrong--no disrespect intended.
But a credible, cogent source will vindicate you.
All other Havoline dino oils have been moved to group III. Since all that is needed is VI's to get the viscosity up, I'm not thinking Havoline would use a totally different base for their 20W50 oils. They make no mention of doing such on their webpage...
Whatever the 20W50 Havoline is, it's doing a perfectly adequate job in my Harley. But you're the first guy I've heard say it's a group II oil... (?)
Dan
I don't read here as much as I used to, so what is your source for saying that Havoline is all Grp III now?
My source for all three oils listed above is the MSDS for each.
As for making a 20w50 from all Grp III: The reason it can't be done is that Group III is only made in a narrow viscosity cut, roughly 5 to 8 cst. You simply can't make a 20w50 from a blend of 5 to 8 cst basestocks, I don't care how much VI improver you dump in.
I checked the Havoline MSDS but it doesn't say which group any of the conventional oils are in... unless I'm missing something. Show me the link you looked at on the Havoline oil. Folks around this forum have been calling it group III for quite some time now.
If I'm wrong, I need to recant and repent. But again, the oil works very well, and the FLASH POINT being so high would tell me it's something more than just bacon fat.
The FP on my UOA's has been right around 400 degrees, actually higher than many group IV oils. I remember FP's on older group I and II oils seem to be right around 300 degrees.
Does Flash Point get better based on the group? I don't know--that's why I'm asking...
Dan
If I'm wrong, I need to recant and repent.
But again, the oil works very well, and the FLASH POINT being so high would tell me it's something more than just bacon fat.
Does Flash Point get better based on the group? I don't know--that's why I'm asking...
Dan
The CAS# for Group II and Group III (excluding wax isomerates, which Chevron does not make anyway) is the same.
Given how good Chevron's Group II and II+ is, I can see no reason why they would need to go to the much more expensive Group III across the board on conventional Havoline. And as I said, you can't make a 20w50 from nothing but Group III.
Given how good Chevron's Group II and II+ is, I can see no reason why they would need to go to the much more expensive Group III across the board on conventional Havoline. And as I said, you can't make a 20w50 from nothing but Group III.
Well... you've got my curiosity up now. I'll put up a post at the PCMO category and see what we can find out.
Dan
I'll put up a post at the PCMO category and see what we can find out. Dan
One of the bike guys I used to work with had cases of 20w50 he used to pick up on sale stacked up in the back room. No particular brand, just 20w50. Whenever someone bought a new bike or engine rebuild he'd hand them a case of his sale oil, and say "use this up" then switch to whatever you want. They were real 24qt cases too, not this wimpy 6 pack thing. He was a firm believer in the no-breakin on synthetic, right or wrong, and this was his way of making it happen.
So, as not to hijack the thread. Buy a case of sale oil!use it up while your waiting for your order of "the good stuff" from Pablo, LOL.
So, as not to hijack the thread. Buy a case of sale oil!use it up while your waiting for your order of "the good stuff" from Pablo, LOL.
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Yea, I already got the oil from Pablo and it's in the bike. I put 240 miles on MCV, but for some reason, I hear a ticking a little more. Not much, but a little more. Hmph. I'm sure it's better than the HD Scr. Eagle SYN 3 that was in it though...
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
I put 240 miles on MCV, but for some reason, I hear a ticking a little more. Not much, but a little more.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that if the mind wants to imagine different sounds and shift feels because of a different oil, it'll imagine it. My guess is the Amsoil is doing pretty much the exact same thing the H-D oil was doing, as any decent oil would do.
Relax -- Amsoil is darn fine oil. You're good.
I put 240 miles on MCV, but for some reason, I hear a ticking a little more. Not much, but a little more.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that if the mind wants to imagine different sounds and shift feels because of a different oil, it'll imagine it. My guess is the Amsoil is doing pretty much the exact same thing the H-D oil was doing, as any decent oil would do.
Relax -- Amsoil is darn fine oil. You're good.
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It's probably hotter outside than it was when you last listened really closely to your engine. When the outside temps get hot, of course these engines get hotter, and they'll make more noise.
And +1 to what Don mentioned above... it's often the heightened sense of awareness after an oil change that makes us think "the engine is quieter... or noiser... or more powerful... or sluggish now..." etc... ...when in fact, little or nothing has changed.
I think after 10 pages (not all owing to the hijack, by the way
)... you should publish a UOA on this oil after 3000 to 5000 miles. After all, that's the only way you can really know if you're getting excessive (or merely average) wear.
Dan
And +1 to what Don mentioned above... it's often the heightened sense of awareness after an oil change that makes us think "the engine is quieter... or noiser... or more powerful... or sluggish now..." etc...
...when in fact, little or nothing has changed.I think after 10 pages (not all owing to the hijack, by the way
Dan
+2 on the trying to listen and feel for some change after an oil change, heck i even do it with my car, LOL. It's also funny how when the engine is right between your legs it runs hotter, is hard on oil, and is automatically "special needs". Put it under a hood of a car and it's good to go with any ole oil for thousands of miles.
SKUNKY said:
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