BMW Z3 2.5 with Castrol Edge 0W-30

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
When I see oil filter that is sold for $3,

The irony is that a Fram Ultra for the OP's application is about twice as expensive as the OEM Mann. You pay double to experience a spectacular failure like the one I posted above.




I was referring to basic FRAM. But get your point. It is just ridiculous what you can buy today in the stores, and whole marketing behind those products is Made in USA. They are using that to sell substandard product, but import internal parts from cheapest supplier. In the hindsight, you would think they care about this country. Company that wants to keep name in the business will not make that kind of product.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
and Fram or Wix make better filtration versions for BMWs.

Except it's not just about filtration. Better filtration efficiency is typically achieved at the expense of flow. BMW filters are designed with greater flow in mind. You install a filter that has a more restricted flow, and the filter media collapses and gets torn like in the example I posted above.

Either that, or that Fram filter was just really poorly made.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Better flow, more filtration when using synthetic media.

Like its been pointed out many times, the BMW Fram Ultra example you point to was fixed in place with the structural filter housing and back-up steel mesh, NOT A FAILURE there.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Better flow, more filtration when using synthetic media.

Like its been pointed out many times, the BMW Fram Ultra example you point to was fixed in place with the structural filter housing and back-up steel mesh, NOT A FAILURE there.

I think you should contact BMW and tell them to start using FRAM.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think you should contact BMW and tell them to start using FRAM.


You're confusing an OEM's this-part-is-adequate attitude with the view of an enthusiast: We want better if we can get it. That said, some people who own GM cars/trucks will only use AC-Delco dealer oil, some who own BMWs only use BMW's house brand oil, other makes all have their own parts, so you should definitely stick to that. The aftermarket can offer no improvements according to your (and some other's) thinking. Too dull.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Based on the fact that Mann is actually OEM filter for BMW, and other vehicles coming from Germany. If FRAM is better, or NAPS etc, I think they would use it. They do not have issue using Bridgestone, Michelin tires, Japanese air bags, etc, so why not FRAM or WIX if it is better?
Comparing FRAM to Mann? Seriously?
When I see oil filter that is sold for $3, I would have hard time to use it to filter water for my dog, not oil in 50K car.


OEM parts, in this case in Germany, often is due to country club politics and nationalism. I know its hard to believe the Germans could be so nationalistic..... hmmmm. Of course, a business deal can be more lucrative if offered, and so far Fram hasn't seen to offer.

Yes compare Fram to Mann or Mahle or Hengst or any made-in-poland or wherever. Look at the quality of the media and construction of the CH-, tough guards, Ultras and tell me Fram can't compete.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I tried Fram cartridge oil filter in my E430 some years ago. From the look of unused filter it was okay, but after some miles it seemed did not do well as German filters (Mann, Mahle, Hengst, Bosch ...)

When I loosen the oil filter holder on top of the engine after 2-3 hours, the oil drain down into the engine with German filters, no oil drain back into the engine with Fram filter. The filter didn't fit well to the holder therefore didn't retain the oil.

The final nail on the coffin is Fram cartridge oil filter for E430 is more expensive than German filters.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Mann filters for the M54 are the best for the price. They are OEM and very inexpensive. Made in Mexico. I wouldn't overthink it.


Based on what? How well they filter? Wix, napa gold, Fram CH-, or Fram Ultra is the best choice for BMW, and they don't cost much more at all, maybe the same or a couple of bucks extra.


I'm basing this on the price to benefit ratio. Why would you pay double for the Fram over the OEM Mann?

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
OEM parts, in this case in Germany, often is due to country club politics and nationalism.


It's due to supplier location. Shipping oil filters from USA to Germany, how ridiculous would that be?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think you should contact BMW and tell them to start using FRAM.


You're confusing an OEM's this-part-is-adequate attitude with the view of an enthusiast: We want better if we can get it. That said, some people who own GM cars/trucks will only use AC-Delco dealer oil, some who own BMWs only use BMW's house brand oil, other makes all have their own parts, so you should definitely stick to that. The aftermarket can offer no improvements according to your (and some other's) thinking. Too dull.

No, I am not talking about aftermarket. I am talking about FRAM particularly.
I yet to see BMW that failed using recommended oil and OEM filter. So why need for FRAM, that "supposedly" cleans better (which is THEIR claim). Also, state of the U.S. auto industry where accountants took over design, engineering etc, tells me to stay away. I could go with the notion that K&N is quality product, but FRAM or whatever, please.
As far as GM, I think they have bigger issues than filtration.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Based on the fact that Mann is actually OEM filter for BMW, and other vehicles coming from Germany. If FRAM is better, or NAPS etc, I think they would use it. They do not have issue using Bridgestone, Michelin tires, Japanese air bags, etc, so why not FRAM or WIX if it is better?
Comparing FRAM to Mann? Seriously?
When I see oil filter that is sold for $3, I would have hard time to use it to filter water for my dog, not oil in 50K car.


OEM parts, in this case in Germany, often is due to country club politics and nationalism. I know its hard to believe the Germans could be so nationalistic..... hmmmm. Of course, a business deal can be more lucrative if offered, and so far Fram hasn't seen to offer.

Yes compare Fram to Mann or Mahle or Hengst or any made-in-poland or wherever. Look at the quality of the media and construction of the CH-, tough guards, Ultras and tell me Fram can't compete.

No it cannot! Recent history of the U.S> auto industry tells me to wait 20 years to see whther they get their s... together.

 

[kschachn]

Lmao, "enthusiast". Right, so now my using a Hengst filter makes me "dull".

So be it then.

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
You're confusing an OEM's this-part-is-adequate attitude with the view of an enthusiast: We want better if we can get it. That said, some people who own GM cars/trucks will only use AC-Delco dealer oil, some who own BMWs only use BMW's house brand oil, other makes all have their own parts, so you should definitely stick to that. The aftermarket can offer no improvements according to your (and some other's) thinking. Too dull.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

No, I am not talking about aftermarket. I am talking about FRAM particularly...

II could go with the notion that K&N is quality product, but FRAM or whatever, please.

.


The ONLY oil filter failure I have ever experienced was a made in KOREA K & N ....yep, made in Korea, not USA. The spot welds on the "nut..." were too deep or something, and the oil was spraying out the safety wire holes... the smell of burning oil thankfully caught my attention before bad stuff happened....a quick google search showed I was not the only one...

So, no more K & N 's for me.... quality product... not so sure anymore...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: edyvw

No, I am not talking about aftermarket. I am talking about FRAM particularly...

II could go with the notion that K&N is quality product, but FRAM or whatever, please.

.


The ONLY oil filter failure I have ever experienced was a made in KOREA K & N ....yep, made in Korea, not USA. The spot welds on the "nut..." were too deep or something, and the oil was spraying out the safety wire holes... the smell of burning oil thankfully caught my attention before bad stuff happened....a quick google search showed I was not the only one...

So, no more K & N 's for me.... quality product... not so sure anymore...

I am not using them, nor I will, but good to know. Thought at least they are doing stuff as they should be.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yup, but as QP can attest to, if you buy a MANN from say Bavauto, it will be made in Mexico.

Not sure about Bavauto, but all the ones I bought from Amazon have always been made in Mexico.

The Knecht/Mahle ones from bimmerparts were made in Austria.

BTW, when you factor in free shipping, I have found Amazon prices on these filters often better than Rockauto's.


The Mann air filters I bought from Amazon recently were made in Germany.

The 2.5 liter Z3 OEM oil filter may indeed be a Mann.

The BMW Z4M 3.2 liter 6 cylinder OEM oil filter is a Mahle. But that is a M engine.

The FRAM filter for this fitment is priced higher than the OEM German filters because two packs of FRAM Koolaid are included with every filter.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
The Mann air filters I bought from Amazon recently were made in Germany.

Yes, I should have specified that it was the HU 925/4x oil filter for my 530i that I was referring to.

I also bought some Mann oil filters for the wife's C300 (HU 718/5x) off Amazon, and these were made in Germany.

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Lmao, "enthusiast". Right, so now my using a Hengst filter makes me "dull".


Dull might not be the best word to use. I'd challenge you to demand that Hengst put at least some synthetic fibers in their oil filter. Do they? I believe they are just plain paper. Also, demand that they publish ISO 4548-12 filter performance results. Do they?

Notice Fram does all those things in all their oil filters. So enthusiasts choose Fram.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Lmao, "enthusiast". Right, so now my using a Hengst filter makes me "dull".


Dull might not be the best word to use. I'd challenge you to demand that Hengst put at least some synthetic fibers in their oil filter. Do they? I believe they are just plain paper. Also, demand that they publish ISO 4548-12 filter performance results. Do they?

Notice Fram does all those things in all their oil filters. So enthusiasts choose Fram.

So it goes like this: FRAM puts synthetic paper in and it disintegrates after some time.
Mann or whatever puts plain paper, but it holds for OCI.
I think I will choose plain paper.
By the way, who are enthusiasts?

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

So it goes like this: FRAM puts synthetic paper in and it disintegrates after some time.
Mann or whatever puts plain paper, but it holds for OCI.
I think I will choose plain paper.
By the way, who are enthusiasts?


Fram disintegrates? Where? You're just saying that with no proof.
Enthusiasts are people who choose products based on their superior performance, not usually based on 'made in Germany' etc.
Its old-man Cumberbatch down the road who says (with a nasaly tone): "I'll just use what the dealership tells me to." or "That company seems nice, I'll trust them." when logical enthusiasts do their homework and buy the best product.

 

[kschachn]

Why would I? The filter meets the standard specified by BMW, since the Hengst filter also carries the BMW logo.

Are you saying I need something else?

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
I'd challenge you to demand that Hengst put at least some synthetic fibers in their oil filter. Do they? I believe they are just plain paper. Also, demand that they publish ISO 4548-12 filter performance results. Do they?

Notice Fram does all those things in all their oil filters. So enthusiasts choose Fram

 

[CrawfishTails]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Why would I? The filter meets the standard specified by BMW, since the Hengst filter also carries the BMW logo.

Are you saying I need something else?


Yes. Minimum standards are OK, better performance is better.