I've been using Redline 5w30 & 10w40 in my R1. In 30k miles Ive tried lots of oils & so far its my fav.
Good luck with your new 6, just put some hard miles on it before you switch to synthetic oil.
best oil for a bike?
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Good luck with your new 6, just put some hard miles on it before you switch to synthetic oil.
come on now. IT’S A motorcycle use a motorcycle oil.
I work for Kawasaki, i see problems all the time with people using car oil in there bike. Not so much the Mobil red cap but mostly dino car oil.
The cams go flat, the dog teeth in the trans start to round off and slip out of gear. and that’s the main two problems.
I sure some bikes will be fine on car oil BUT WHY IN THE **** WOULD someone skinp a few dollars a year for oil and take that chance, Kawasaki brand oil is only 3.99 a quart or 11.99 a gallon. (ahh all my venting I explain this 300 times a day to customers with new bike and cant figure out why they wont run and slip out of gear) "soap box off"!
I really don’t mind paying for a good product and im a firm believer in bike oils. I run amsoil m\c in my Honda(yea I work for Kawasaki it is what it is) and its got 24k of hard drag racing with out a problem and the trans is silent on this oil, with car oil I’ve heard the same model bike sound like your stepping on glass when switching gears.
Sorry if I have offended anyone but there is always that person that’s got 4 million miles on some car oil with 30K OCI and some miracle additive that knows it all.
I work for Kawasaki, i see problems all the time with people using car oil in there bike. Not so much the Mobil red cap but mostly dino car oil.
The cams go flat, the dog teeth in the trans start to round off and slip out of gear. and that’s the main two problems.
I sure some bikes will be fine on car oil BUT WHY IN THE **** WOULD someone skinp a few dollars a year for oil and take that chance, Kawasaki brand oil is only 3.99 a quart or 11.99 a gallon. (ahh all my venting I explain this 300 times a day to customers with new bike and cant figure out why they wont run and slip out of gear) "soap box off"!
I really don’t mind paying for a good product and im a firm believer in bike oils. I run amsoil m\c in my Honda(yea I work for Kawasaki it is what it is) and its got 24k of hard drag racing with out a problem and the trans is silent on this oil, with car oil I’ve heard the same model bike sound like your stepping on glass when switching gears.
Sorry if I have offended anyone but there is always that person that’s got 4 million miles on some car oil with 30K OCI and some miracle additive that knows it all.
You said it. I don't mind paying for a good product either. I guess the problem is not all Motorcycle oils are all that great and VOA's have shown it. Some are good, some are not. But the bottom line is it stinks that people pay $4, $6, $10 a quart and they are getting junk in a pretty bottle.
When you say you have seen damage done due to car oils, which oils? And under what conditions. Even the best oil will stop protecting if run too long. Of if the bike was run low on oil, or even out of tune. How did you isolate the problem to being the car oil used.
[ October 27, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Huhwhye ]
When you say you have seen damage done due to car oils, which oils? And under what conditions. Even the best oil will stop protecting if run too long. Of if the bike was run low on oil, or even out of tune. How did you isolate the problem to being the car oil used.
[ October 27, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Huhwhye ]
In my opinion, and I may be wrong, the UOA is really what counts. I know all the manufacturers say "theirs is the best" - "the lowest wear scars" - "extended drains" etc., etc., etc., but until a person tests it via UOA, it's all advertising that may or may not be true.
It's not what is on the outside of the bottle, but what it contains, and how it works in the engine you put it in.
How can anyone truly know how effective the oil is working until you sample it out, test it, review the results?
I am waiting for my results from Blackstone, hopefully this week, on 2400 miles on Amsoil, and I hope it comes out well - but if not, I will not use it again. I spent about $8 per quart for it, so anything less than a stellar test will be unsatisfactory to me.
I am currently testing M1 Truck and SUV, 5w/40 in the bike now - it's 5.99 per quart, and when I do a UOA, if it's not an excellent report, that too will be gone...
So, what am I saying? Whether it be motorcycle or automotive oil, I think testing it is the key, and then make an informed decision based on the evidence and the results.
No doubt the oil manufactures would love to take the same auto oil, throw some extra's in it, and then double or triple up the price --- they are in business, and ultimately, their bottom line is their primary focus...
Just my 2 cents worth...
RevRider
It's not what is on the outside of the bottle, but what it contains, and how it works in the engine you put it in.
How can anyone truly know how effective the oil is working until you sample it out, test it, review the results?
I am waiting for my results from Blackstone, hopefully this week, on 2400 miles on Amsoil, and I hope it comes out well - but if not, I will not use it again. I spent about $8 per quart for it, so anything less than a stellar test will be unsatisfactory to me.
I am currently testing M1 Truck and SUV, 5w/40 in the bike now - it's 5.99 per quart, and when I do a UOA, if it's not an excellent report, that too will be gone...
So, what am I saying? Whether it be motorcycle or automotive oil, I think testing it is the key, and then make an informed decision based on the evidence and the results.
No doubt the oil manufactures would love to take the same auto oil, throw some extra's in it, and then double or triple up the price --- they are in business, and ultimately, their bottom line is their primary focus...
Just my 2 cents worth...
RevRider
Spot-on, RevRider!
Bugman, I'm sorry, but I would argue with you for quite awhile on this issue.
There is NO WAY you can back up your claims that a "car" oil was the root cause of any damage in a motorcycle motor.
There are oils that were desinged specifically with automobile gas engines in mind, yet they will also be fine choices for other applciations.
Same with diesel designed oils. They tend to be VERY good choices for motorcycles, since they were designed for a higher stress application than most conventional gas oils were.
Unless you can answer Huhwhye's questions with some sort of solid data, then I have to place your recommendations in the stack with other mechanics who are simply making assumptions.
With the addition of propriatary components, and differing levels of known components, there is NO WAY to actually know what oil is best for any individual application without testing, analysis, and comapartive data.
BTW...I didn;t know that Kawasaki did any sort of servicing of their motorcycles...wait...you mean you work for a dealer or shop the sells Kawasaki's, yes?
Bugman, I'm sorry, but I would argue with you for quite awhile on this issue.
There is NO WAY you can back up your claims that a "car" oil was the root cause of any damage in a motorcycle motor.
There are oils that were desinged specifically with automobile gas engines in mind, yet they will also be fine choices for other applciations.
Same with diesel designed oils. They tend to be VERY good choices for motorcycles, since they were designed for a higher stress application than most conventional gas oils were.
Unless you can answer Huhwhye's questions with some sort of solid data, then I have to place your recommendations in the stack with other mechanics who are simply making assumptions.
With the addition of propriatary components, and differing levels of known components, there is NO WAY to actually know what oil is best for any individual application without testing, analysis, and comapartive data.
BTW...I didn;t know that Kawasaki did any sort of servicing of their motorcycles...wait...you mean you work for a dealer or shop the sells Kawasaki's, yes?
i use amsoils' new M/C oil in my 2005 kawasaki vn2000! it uses a little oil between changes, but i understand this is thenature of this beast. but at 5.8qts! i guess i have some oil to spare... lol it takes more oil than my car... 8)
here's a pic of my oil hungry monster
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/arkainzeye
here's a pic of my oil hungry monster
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/arkainzeye
RevRider, I do realize that Maxima probably charges more than they need to to make a fair (or at least what I would consider fair) profit on their products. But consider this, I bought their product based on what I read on the website, a paper that was written about cycle oils on The Motor Oil Site's forum, and called them personally and talked to their technical department, asking some pretty good questions about how well built of an oil it is, plus about some of the additives.
I do accept, though, that I'm very anal about my vehicles and at $10.99 per liter (my local dealer's price), it is probably WAY over the top of what most are willing to pay for a quality lubricant. I, though, try not to put a price tag on my oil just because I know how I want to drive, like to drive, and want my engine to be happy at all times, whether it be at 1000 rpm idle, or redlining it at 6500 for a few minutes a pop.
Am I weird, probably. Obsessed with oil, MOST definitely. Paying more than I should...DON'T ANSWER THAT ONE!!!
I do accept, though, that I'm very anal about my vehicles and at $10.99 per liter (my local dealer's price), it is probably WAY over the top of what most are willing to pay for a quality lubricant. I, though, try not to put a price tag on my oil just because I know how I want to drive, like to drive, and want my engine to be happy at all times, whether it be at 1000 rpm idle, or redlining it at 6500 for a few minutes a pop.
Am I weird, probably. Obsessed with oil, MOST definitely. Paying more than I should...DON'T ANSWER THAT ONE!!!
Well said rev rider. I agree if a car oil can do the job the who cars what’s on the bottle, I just hear to much of the general comment that oil is oil.....come on.
Well i can say the Kawasaki Vulcan 800, i have see 2 come in with the cams flat. Both customers were using dino car oil. One on 10w-40 castrol GTX, and the other bike had a straight 30 weight not sure the brand. And they both had less than 5k miles on the bikes, one was a 04 and one an 02. I have never had any other 800 come in with this problem, could it be just a coincidence, yes. But it may just be that motor don’t like certain oils or it could be a freak occurrence.
Also similar with the trans, I’ve rebuilt a lot of them not all were on car oils but I would say 70% of them are. All of these bike have had a few more miles on them.
Ive got a set of clutch disks in my garage that all measure in spec but were slipping under load. I forget which oil was in the bike but it was a car oil. And all the springs were good and disk not worn. If there is a way to test them i will mail them to someone. I would like to know.
And I’ve noticed how much better most bikes shift after changing them over.
Now I’ve never head of a problem with Mobil 1 red cap. But its mostly the older laid back guys that seem to run it. more of the touring type and the bikes are well maintained and ran easy.
So its not worth arguing with about but I will say I not against all car oils it just makes me feel better to see it was make for a bike.
I own my own business and work for a Kawasaki dealer right now. yea Kawasaki does not work on their bikes. And let me tell you some of the dealers are not qualified to work on a lawnmower.
I drag race a Kawasaki ZX-10 and im getting into road racing. Im riding a ZX-6R( as soon as next season starts).
Well i can say the Kawasaki Vulcan 800, i have see 2 come in with the cams flat. Both customers were using dino car oil. One on 10w-40 castrol GTX, and the other bike had a straight 30 weight not sure the brand. And they both had less than 5k miles on the bikes, one was a 04 and one an 02. I have never had any other 800 come in with this problem, could it be just a coincidence, yes. But it may just be that motor don’t like certain oils or it could be a freak occurrence.
Also similar with the trans, I’ve rebuilt a lot of them not all were on car oils but I would say 70% of them are. All of these bike have had a few more miles on them.
Ive got a set of clutch disks in my garage that all measure in spec but were slipping under load. I forget which oil was in the bike but it was a car oil. And all the springs were good and disk not worn. If there is a way to test them i will mail them to someone. I would like to know.
And I’ve noticed how much better most bikes shift after changing them over.
Now I’ve never head of a problem with Mobil 1 red cap. But its mostly the older laid back guys that seem to run it. more of the touring type and the bikes are well maintained and ran easy.
So its not worth arguing with about but I will say I not against all car oils it just makes me feel better to see it was make for a bike.
I own my own business and work for a Kawasaki dealer right now. yea Kawasaki does not work on their bikes. And let me tell you some of the dealers are not qualified to work on a lawnmower.
I drag race a Kawasaki ZX-10 and im getting into road racing. Im riding a ZX-6R( as soon as next season starts).
Hey Dad2, I too have been smitten with the oil disease, and will open my checkbook in order to secure the PERFECT OIL that eliminates any wear from my beloved Valkyrie...I've also entertained Maxima, went to their website to review. Wierd and obsessed? That's what us oilgeeks are, that why we send our oil out, that's why we argue, oops, debate, (in a respectful way) about it. WE ARE THE OIL GEEKS...
Hey Bugman, great post and thoughts. I am a touring type of rider, my bike redlines at 6500, and the most I've taken it too is 6000 - so I am pretty easy on my machinery. I don't feel totally comfortable with straight auto oil personally, meaning, I have used motorcycle specific my whole life, and I am now trying M1 Truck and SUV, which I understand is the same as M1 Delvac synthetic 5w/40. I am testing this oil out now, my preference currently is motorcycle specific, or a heavy duty diesel oil like Delvac or Rotella. I am experimenting a little now to see which works best.
By the way, I just posted my UOA tonight, it is on Amsoil 10w/40 motorcycle specific - check it out, and let me know what you think...
RevRider
Hey Bugman, great post and thoughts. I am a touring type of rider, my bike redlines at 6500, and the most I've taken it too is 6000 - so I am pretty easy on my machinery. I don't feel totally comfortable with straight auto oil personally, meaning, I have used motorcycle specific my whole life, and I am now trying M1 Truck and SUV, which I understand is the same as M1 Delvac synthetic 5w/40. I am testing this oil out now, my preference currently is motorcycle specific, or a heavy duty diesel oil like Delvac or Rotella. I am experimenting a little now to see which works best.
By the way, I just posted my UOA tonight, it is on Amsoil 10w/40 motorcycle specific - check it out, and let me know what you think...
RevRider
Arkain, how do you like your Vulcan 2000, I was thinking about adding this one to the garage?
RevRider
RevRider
As an additional thought of support to my previous statement about the bottom line of oil companies their primary concern, anybody happy with what we are paying at the pump right now?
Record profits by the oil companies, I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, RECORD PROFITS...they have capitalized on the misfortunes of others, the war efforts, etc., and pump up the prices not as a result of additional costs, because their bottom line reflects a huge increase in profit, so exp's have remained the same, the selling price has increased, thus the windfall profit.
As consumers, we just have to do our homework on determining the "truth" about the product. If $12 per quart oil truly is the best performer for my bike, I will buy it and put it in, period. But, if $6.00 per quart is equal in product quality, I work too hard to give away the additional $6.00 per quart.
It's sad when truth and honesty are missing in business dealings. Motorcyclists have been thrown under the bus with all this stuff. Moly or no moly, auto oil versus no auto oil, this weight verses that weight, energy conserving label or no label, API SM or SL or etc., etc.
Just my opinion...
RevRider
Record profits by the oil companies, I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, RECORD PROFITS...they have capitalized on the misfortunes of others, the war efforts, etc., and pump up the prices not as a result of additional costs, because their bottom line reflects a huge increase in profit, so exp's have remained the same, the selling price has increased, thus the windfall profit.
As consumers, we just have to do our homework on determining the "truth" about the product. If $12 per quart oil truly is the best performer for my bike, I will buy it and put it in, period. But, if $6.00 per quart is equal in product quality, I work too hard to give away the additional $6.00 per quart.
It's sad when truth and honesty are missing in business dealings. Motorcyclists have been thrown under the bus with all this stuff. Moly or no moly, auto oil versus no auto oil, this weight verses that weight, energy conserving label or no label, API SM or SL or etc., etc.
Just my opinion...
RevRider
Dollar vs good numbers in a oil, for a motorcycle engine and tranny, petroleun HDEO is my pick. I do however like synthetics,but I believe you are better off using a excellent petroleum oil with frequent changes when it comes to our bikes. For my opinion no need for synthetic in a MX MOTOR! Not that it isn't worth it,but I would never go longer than normal with oil changes for my bike.
Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
Fair points, KX...but the MX engine, especialy wet clutch applications, will see heat that is increased from normal applications...such as what dino oils can withstand. I think maybe the syns have the edge there. Even in short duration, which I completely agree is necessary.
Jay good rely,but please explain. Like mentioned,I perform frequent changes using delo 400 every 2 visit's to the track the oil get's dropped. The filter get's dropped every 4,Why would a syntetic be a advantage over HDEO in my application. HDEO have great HTHS#S GOOD Flashpoints etc,good tbn#s. In which way would a synthetic handle heat better,(motorcycle specific) talking short intervals? I was big on synthetic's using them in my clutch/tranny 2 strokes,before I educated myself on this site.
I have investigated HDEO oils to no-end and have been using them for the last 4 yrs. I am very interested in why you say a synthetic would handle heat better,especially when it comes to a clutch system. I have seen UOA of good synthetics not stay in grade any better than a good petroleum. Do not get me wrong,I WOULD NOT USE ANY OF THE MILL PETROLEUM OIL. I do believe a good HDEO is more than enough of what we are looking for when it comes to our rides.If you have a way to get it through me why a syntetic would be better please GO FOR IT!I am listening.
Keith
"Let's just ride"
I have investigated HDEO oils to no-end and have been using them for the last 4 yrs. I am very interested in why you say a synthetic would handle heat better,especially when it comes to a clutch system. I have seen UOA of good synthetics not stay in grade any better than a good petroleum. Do not get me wrong,I WOULD NOT USE ANY OF THE MILL PETROLEUM OIL. I do believe a good HDEO is more than enough of what we are looking for when it comes to our rides.If you have a way to get it through me why a syntetic would be better please GO FOR IT!I am listening.
Keith
"Let's just ride"
Cheesy,
I have an '05 zx6r and run Mobil 1 Truck & SUV in it. Works fine. If I was going to switch to something, it'd be the amsoil 10w40 motorcycle oil. MCF is what I think it is.
Ethan
I have an '05 zx6r and run Mobil 1 Truck & SUV in it. Works fine. If I was going to switch to something, it'd be the amsoil 10w40 motorcycle oil. MCF is what I think it is.
Ethan
KX455,
The absence of polymers in a full synthetic formulation would give the fluid an edge with the high heat that an MX bike creates.
Especially that of a two stroke, where clutch use is hard and often.
And in a 4 stroke bike, PAO or esters may well be better protection for the plain bearings that the cams ride in.
It's my understanding that dino oils contain far more polymers than a synthetic fluid, and polymers degrade very fast in the high heat applications of motocross and off-road riding.
But hey...I'm only a student of tribology, perhaps the learned could weigh in on this.
The absence of polymers in a full synthetic formulation would give the fluid an edge with the high heat that an MX bike creates.
Especially that of a two stroke, where clutch use is hard and often.
And in a 4 stroke bike, PAO or esters may well be better protection for the plain bearings that the cams ride in.
It's my understanding that dino oils contain far more polymers than a synthetic fluid, and polymers degrade very fast in the high heat applications of motocross and off-road riding.
But hey...I'm only a student of tribology, perhaps the learned could weigh in on this.
You have me thinking,I need to do a little investigating. Thanks for the come back!!!!!
I know that HDEO is very cost effective especially for how much I drop the oil and filter on my RMZ-450. Price and for what you get in these oil's I believe it can't be beat,I am trying to weigh a good synthetic against it. Another words, for how often I change my oil would a good synthetic money wise, really out weigh the protection I am getting with HDEO's
Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
I know that HDEO is very cost effective especially for how much I drop the oil and filter on my RMZ-450. Price and for what you get in these oil's I believe it can't be beat,I am trying to weigh a good synthetic against it. Another words, for how often I change my oil would a good synthetic money wise, really out weigh the protection I am getting with HDEO's
Keith
"LET'S JUST RIDE"
KX 455, the quick answer to your question is probably not really, but the way I see it, it gives me a little bit more peace of mind knowing that I'm doing the absolute BEST that I can do for my engine in using synthetic. HDEO's are a great oil package, and if you're changing the oil as much as you let on, then synthetic might not be the way to go, but you could add a percentage of synthetic, just to get the synthetic basestocks doing their magic on your engine, instead of forking out a small fortune on an oil change.
My driving habits is the biggest determining factor in why I use a synthetic (super short trips most of the time, never letting the oil get up to temperature).
My driving habits is the biggest determining factor in why I use a synthetic (super short trips most of the time, never letting the oil get up to temperature).
dad2leia,
what bike do you ride?
what bike do you ride?
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