Battery Charger recommendations?
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I've had a BatteryMinder 12248 for some time and I find once in awhile I go in the garage and see it changed from AGM mode to Gel.
So not long ago I bought a couple CTEK chargers - the MUS 4.3 and US 0.8
Hope they hold up.
Have a couple Deltran Plus when haven't been in use for awhile.
So not long ago I bought a couple CTEK chargers - the MUS 4.3 and US 0.8
Hope they hold up.
Have a couple Deltran Plus when haven't been in use for awhile.
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
I received my 2310 last night. I went to the shop and attached it to one of the new 6v batteries I bought for my RV. It read 95% charged.
Attached it to the second 6v and it read 95%. Lastly,I attached it to a year old Deka group 27 marine battery that's kept on a 1.5amp Schumaker maintainer. The Deka also read 95% charged.
I'm wondering if 95% is some kind of default reading before the 2310 starts its charge sequence?
Here is a weird part: even after a decent long drive, when I hook up the 2320 to the battery, it states that the battery is only at 65%, although it quickly jumps to 75%. Voltage is at around 12.4. Is my alternator not working properly?
I received my 2310 last night. I went to the shop and attached it to one of the new 6v batteries I bought for my RV. It read 95% charged.
Attached it to the second 6v and it read 95%. Lastly,I attached it to a year old Deka group 27 marine battery that's kept on a 1.5amp Schumaker maintainer. The Deka also read 95% charged.
I'm wondering if 95% is some kind of default reading before the 2310 starts its charge sequence?
Here is a weird part: even after a decent long drive, when I hook up the 2320 to the battery, it states that the battery is only at 65%, although it quickly jumps to 75%. Voltage is at around 12.4. Is my alternator not working properly?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
I received my 2310 last night. I went to the shop and attached it to one of the new 6v batteries I bought for my RV. It read 95% charged.
Attached it to the second 6v and it read 95%. Lastly,I attached it to a year old Deka group 27 marine battery that's kept on a 1.5amp Schumaker maintainer. The Deka also read 95% charged.
I'm wondering if 95% is some kind of default reading before the 2310 starts its charge sequence?
Here is a weird part: even after a decent long drive, when I hook up the 2320 to the battery, it states that the battery is only at 65%, although it quickly jumps to 75%. Voltage is at around 12.4. Is my alternator not working properly?
It might be the alternator but it could be the battery too showing its age. The real test would be charging the battery with a good charger before putting it back into service then checking the voltage after that long drive, if it's still low voltage then it's probably the alternator.
Originally Posted By: Stewart Fan
I received my 2310 last night. I went to the shop and attached it to one of the new 6v batteries I bought for my RV. It read 95% charged.
Attached it to the second 6v and it read 95%. Lastly,I attached it to a year old Deka group 27 marine battery that's kept on a 1.5amp Schumaker maintainer. The Deka also read 95% charged.
I'm wondering if 95% is some kind of default reading before the 2310 starts its charge sequence?
Here is a weird part: even after a decent long drive, when I hook up the 2320 to the battery, it states that the battery is only at 65%, although it quickly jumps to 75%. Voltage is at around 12.4. Is my alternator not working properly?
It might be the alternator but it could be the battery too showing its age. The real test would be charging the battery with a good charger before putting it back into service then checking the voltage after that long drive, if it's still low voltage then it's probably the alternator.
Battery is less than 2 years old.
It was charged to full with this 2320 just last week.
It was charged to full with this 2320 just last week.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Battery is less than 2 years old.
It was charged to full with this 2320 just last week.
I mean it sounds like the alternator, a fully charged battery should read in the high 12v range as soon as you shut it off because of the surface charge, anything less than 12.6v after resting un loaded for 6 hours is concerning since that's already 2.10v per cell average.
Is there a chance the charger isn't getting it full?
Battery is less than 2 years old.
It was charged to full with this 2320 just last week.
I mean it sounds like the alternator, a fully charged battery should read in the high 12v range as soon as you shut it off because of the surface charge, anything less than 12.6v after resting un loaded for 6 hours is concerning since that's already 2.10v per cell average.
Is there a chance the charger isn't getting it full?
it should be > 12.8V right after you stop, over 13.0V for a new battery like yours is not uncommon
I would run a full battery test first. Depending on the tester it may take some time. Of all places, WM auto shop may have the latest and the greatest tester on hand, some parts stores too
I would run a full battery test first. Depending on the tester it may take some time. Of all places, WM auto shop may have the latest and the greatest tester on hand, some parts stores too
Originally Posted By: Y_K
it should be > 12.8V right after you stop
Mine is at 12.4V, but its always been that way as far back as i remember. My last battery lasted 6 years.
it should be > 12.8V right after you stop
Mine is at 12.4V, but its always been that way as far back as i remember. My last battery lasted 6 years.
FYI, the Noco G7200 is currently about $70 on Amazon. Normally it's around $100. This one and CTEK 7002 appear very similar in terms of output and features, but the CTEK is significantly more expensive.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Interestingly, the 128CEC1 seems to treat both wet/flooded batteries as well as AGM batteries the same way from a charging voltage perspective. They both get nominal 14.4V. Most other chargers I've seen bump up the charging voltage for AGM to 14.7-14.8V.
Finally got a response from VDC Electronics on this:
Originally Posted By: VDC Electronics
This is one of the reasons we did a complete redesign to the 128CEC1. We took a good look at most AGM Battery MFG's and decided that most AGM batteries perform and maintain voltage from the same settings as flooded requirements. Only the Odyssey Pure Lead Tin required the higher voltage settings for best results. That is the Top setting.
Best Regards,
Interestingly, the 128CEC1 seems to treat both wet/flooded batteries as well as AGM batteries the same way from a charging voltage perspective. They both get nominal 14.4V. Most other chargers I've seen bump up the charging voltage for AGM to 14.7-14.8V.
Finally got a response from VDC Electronics on this:
Originally Posted By: VDC Electronics
This is one of the reasons we did a complete redesign to the 128CEC1. We took a good look at most AGM Battery MFG's and decided that most AGM batteries perform and maintain voltage from the same settings as flooded requirements. Only the Odyssey Pure Lead Tin required the higher voltage settings for best results. That is the Top setting.
Best Regards,
Quattro Pete, my Ctek instructions say the same thing. Only AGMs like Odyssey call for 14.7v.
Interestingly, my AAP AGM battery says it is voltage limited to 14.6v.
If you track down the charging instructions for AC Delco AGM on Amazon, you will see they recommend 14.4v which is exactly what Cteks non AGM setting delivers.
From what I can tell, AC Delco AGM is Johnson Controls and identical to AAP AGM and probably other JC AGM batteries.
Interestingly, my AAP AGM battery says it is voltage limited to 14.6v.
If you track down the charging instructions for AC Delco AGM on Amazon, you will see they recommend 14.4v which is exactly what Cteks non AGM setting delivers.
From what I can tell, AC Delco AGM is Johnson Controls and identical to AAP AGM and probably other JC AGM batteries.
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
If you track down the charging instructions for AC Delco AGM on Amazon, you will see they recommend 14.4v which is exactly what Cteks non AGM setting delivers.
Thanks. By the way, wife's Q5 has a VARTA AGM battery. VARTA is part of Johnson Controls, AFAIK.
In response to my question about recommended max charging voltage, VARTA sent me a 5-page document, of course in German. I ran some parts through Google translate...
Quote:
Standard load:
Charging current with CVCC curve at 25% of rated capacity.
The maximum charge voltage 14.1 to 14.8 V.
Possibly this fairly wide range is given due to different possible ambient temps. Maybe they assume around 14.4V at 20 deg. C?
Standard setting on my Noco is 14.5V for flood/acid, and 14.8V for AGM or when charging in cold temps.
When I use the ProLogix 2320, it climbs up to 14.8V even when set to flood/acid batteries, possibly because it's temp compensated and the temp in the garage was around 50F at the time. Not really sure.
If you track down the charging instructions for AC Delco AGM on Amazon, you will see they recommend 14.4v which is exactly what Cteks non AGM setting delivers.
Thanks. By the way, wife's Q5 has a VARTA AGM battery. VARTA is part of Johnson Controls, AFAIK.
In response to my question about recommended max charging voltage, VARTA sent me a 5-page document, of course in German. I ran some parts through Google translate...
Quote:
Standard load:
Charging current with CVCC curve at 25% of rated capacity.
The maximum charge voltage 14.1 to 14.8 V.
Possibly this fairly wide range is given due to different possible ambient temps. Maybe they assume around 14.4V at 20 deg. C?
Standard setting on my Noco is 14.5V for flood/acid, and 14.8V for AGM or when charging in cold temps.
When I use the ProLogix 2320, it climbs up to 14.8V even when set to flood/acid batteries, possibly because it's temp compensated and the temp in the garage was around 50F at the time. Not really sure.
Yes in my research I found that Varta AGM appeared identical to other JCI AGM batteries.
Here is the link to the AGM charging instructions. It may help you when it comes to maintaining your wife's AGM.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81OnyjN8dKL.pdf
I find it interesting that they say not to leave it on a trickle charger, to not charge below 14.0v and to not exceed 14.4v.
Especially since my non AGM battery seemed to benefit from 12 or more hours on the Cteks initial float voltage of 13.6v. I think this makes sure the battery reaches 100% whereas the absorption phase may cut out too soon.
Here is the link to the AGM charging instructions. It may help you when it comes to maintaining your wife's AGM.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81OnyjN8dKL.pdf
I find it interesting that they say not to leave it on a trickle charger, to not charge below 14.0v and to not exceed 14.4v.
Especially since my non AGM battery seemed to benefit from 12 or more hours on the Cteks initial float voltage of 13.6v. I think this makes sure the battery reaches 100% whereas the absorption phase may cut out too soon.
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Here is the link to the AGM charging instructions. It may help you when it comes to maintaining your wife's AGM.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81OnyjN8dKL.pdf
Thanks. What I found interesting is this:
Quote:
Keep batteries at 65% of full charge or higher. If the OCV falls below 12.4V, recharge the battery.
Another words, they think if you're at 12.4V or above, you don't need to top it up. Of course, they don't state if there is any impact on longevity either.
Here is the link to the AGM charging instructions. It may help you when it comes to maintaining your wife's AGM.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81OnyjN8dKL.pdf
Thanks. What I found interesting is this:
Quote:
Keep batteries at 65% of full charge or higher. If the OCV falls below 12.4V, recharge the battery.
Another words, they think if you're at 12.4V or above, you don't need to top it up. Of course, they don't state if there is any impact on longevity either.
AGM batteries vary more widely in acceptable absorption voltage and float voltage then their flooded counterparts.
I spoke with an Odyssey engineer and he said if I could not float their battery at 13.6v, not to float it at all, that it would sulfate at 13.2v.
Regarding voltage at the end of charge, My Northstar AGM accepts more amperage at lesser voltages than the previous flooded battery, by a good margin.
I use an adjustable voltage power supply to manually recharge from the grid, and when I cannot be there, when amps will taper to 0.05% of capacity at 14.46v at 77f, to lower voltage manually at that point, I lower voltage to 13.6v, the recommended float setting and can leave it unobserved with no fear of overcharging.
To my initial surprise with this AGM, while the battery is accepting say 7.8 amps at 14.46v and tapering slowly in this constant voltage absorption phase of charging, lowering voltage to 13.6 the amps it accepted were still above 6.
A flooded battery in this same state of charge, and voltage prematurely lowered prematurely to 13.6, as most every automatic charger will do( the premature revert to float), the amps taper to 1.5 to 2, 1/3rd of that which the agm would require at the same state of charge to be held at 13.6v
And thus time to full takes about 12 more hours at 13.6v, where it would have taken only about 2 more hours at 14.4.
I use the AGM setting on my Schumacher sc2500a to charge a flooded battery. I do this as it keeps the whack job Schumacher from exceeding 15 volts, and it will actually hold absorption voltage for longer. It might flash the green light, but it will stay at 14.4v for longer than it will on the flooded battery setting, bettering the chances of a full charge, and it floats at 13.6v.
I'd not let it float a flooded battery for a week at 13.6v but for a few hours or overnight, it will bring the battery that much closer to a true full charge.
Put an Ammeter in line on a charging source can really open ones eyes as to what is going on.
This one will count Amp hours, and display voltage, wattage, watt hours, minimum voltage, Amp peak, watt peak.
Do NOT trust the voltage display on the charger no matter how much you want to, until you verify with a digital multimeter directly on battery terminals. It might be accurate at a 2 amp charge rate and be 1 volt off at 20. My Schumacher is 1.2 volts off at 25 amps, reading low.
Do not use with a charger capable of more than 25 amps:
http://www.amazon.com/Makerfire%C2%AE-Precision-Power-Meter-Analyzer/dp/B00ORGDQOK/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459368875&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=gtpower+wattmeter
This can give you an idea of the health and state of charge of the battery when one uses the charger, and give clues to the chargers operation too. If a 100AH battery required 50AH before the charger reverts to float voltage, well figure a 10% loss for charging inefficeincy, and the battery was around 60% charged when the charger was plugged in.
But if the minimum voltage recorded was 10.6v, and this 100Ah battery took 50AH before charger shut down, and/or reverted to float voltage, then this 100AH battery might have only half of its remaining capacity available, as 10.5v is considered 100% discharged.
One can also use this wattmeter to gauge the performance of the charger. When the charging source reverts to float voltage, Unplug charger and wattmeter and apply a load to battery just long enough to drop voltage to restart charger on next lowest amperage setting. Se how many AH the wattmeter counts before the charger reverts to float voltage again. Often you will find that one can squeeze in 5 to 10% more AH compared to the first time the charger stopped and reverted to float voltage. Proving the battery was not full when the smart charger declared it to be, the first time.
Also one can see how much more the battery accepts at float voltage, if one just restarts the charger without bleeding off the surface charge and voltage is still above 13 when charger is restarted.
The wattmeter inline will prove the soothing green light indicating a full charge, is a pathological liar, most of the time, but especially on a deeply discharged battery not in the greatest of health to begin with, when it was overdischarged.
If one is really interested in the battery state of charge, then measuring how much amperage floaw at voltage and how much Wh or AH was sent to the battery is very enlightening.
Trusting the green light on asmart charger is akin to driving without an odometer, speedometer or fuel gauge, and hoping for the best. You might not run out of gas, but when you do it could be a total surprise.
I spoke with an Odyssey engineer and he said if I could not float their battery at 13.6v, not to float it at all, that it would sulfate at 13.2v.
Regarding voltage at the end of charge, My Northstar AGM accepts more amperage at lesser voltages than the previous flooded battery, by a good margin.
I use an adjustable voltage power supply to manually recharge from the grid, and when I cannot be there, when amps will taper to 0.05% of capacity at 14.46v at 77f, to lower voltage manually at that point, I lower voltage to 13.6v, the recommended float setting and can leave it unobserved with no fear of overcharging.
To my initial surprise with this AGM, while the battery is accepting say 7.8 amps at 14.46v and tapering slowly in this constant voltage absorption phase of charging, lowering voltage to 13.6 the amps it accepted were still above 6.
A flooded battery in this same state of charge, and voltage prematurely lowered prematurely to 13.6, as most every automatic charger will do( the premature revert to float), the amps taper to 1.5 to 2, 1/3rd of that which the agm would require at the same state of charge to be held at 13.6v
And thus time to full takes about 12 more hours at 13.6v, where it would have taken only about 2 more hours at 14.4.
I use the AGM setting on my Schumacher sc2500a to charge a flooded battery. I do this as it keeps the whack job Schumacher from exceeding 15 volts, and it will actually hold absorption voltage for longer. It might flash the green light, but it will stay at 14.4v for longer than it will on the flooded battery setting, bettering the chances of a full charge, and it floats at 13.6v.
I'd not let it float a flooded battery for a week at 13.6v but for a few hours or overnight, it will bring the battery that much closer to a true full charge.
Put an Ammeter in line on a charging source can really open ones eyes as to what is going on.
This one will count Amp hours, and display voltage, wattage, watt hours, minimum voltage, Amp peak, watt peak.
Do NOT trust the voltage display on the charger no matter how much you want to, until you verify with a digital multimeter directly on battery terminals. It might be accurate at a 2 amp charge rate and be 1 volt off at 20. My Schumacher is 1.2 volts off at 25 amps, reading low.
Do not use with a charger capable of more than 25 amps:
http://www.amazon.com/Makerfire%C2%AE-Precision-Power-Meter-Analyzer/dp/B00ORGDQOK/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459368875&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=gtpower+wattmeter
This can give you an idea of the health and state of charge of the battery when one uses the charger, and give clues to the chargers operation too. If a 100AH battery required 50AH before the charger reverts to float voltage, well figure a 10% loss for charging inefficeincy, and the battery was around 60% charged when the charger was plugged in.
But if the minimum voltage recorded was 10.6v, and this 100Ah battery took 50AH before charger shut down, and/or reverted to float voltage, then this 100AH battery might have only half of its remaining capacity available, as 10.5v is considered 100% discharged.
One can also use this wattmeter to gauge the performance of the charger. When the charging source reverts to float voltage, Unplug charger and wattmeter and apply a load to battery just long enough to drop voltage to restart charger on next lowest amperage setting. Se how many AH the wattmeter counts before the charger reverts to float voltage again. Often you will find that one can squeeze in 5 to 10% more AH compared to the first time the charger stopped and reverted to float voltage. Proving the battery was not full when the smart charger declared it to be, the first time.
Also one can see how much more the battery accepts at float voltage, if one just restarts the charger without bleeding off the surface charge and voltage is still above 13 when charger is restarted.
The wattmeter inline will prove the soothing green light indicating a full charge, is a pathological liar, most of the time, but especially on a deeply discharged battery not in the greatest of health to begin with, when it was overdischarged.
If one is really interested in the battery state of charge, then measuring how much amperage floaw at voltage and how much Wh or AH was sent to the battery is very enlightening.
Trusting the green light on asmart charger is akin to driving without an odometer, speedometer or fuel gauge, and hoping for the best. You might not run out of gas, but when you do it could be a total surprise.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I had to buy a new charger recently and I bought a Stanley.
Watch out for the Schumacher's. They will overcharge at 15.5V
That's nothing my last Schumacher went up to over 16.1v
Im guessing that these Schumachers aren't intended for maintenance (they arent), and so are designed to bring a dead battery up and then equalize the cells. You need to go that high to equalize, otherwise the highest cell will drive the situation and the lowest will remain undercharged.
Not advocating the practice, just my speculation, and an OK process to implement in some situations...
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I had to buy a new charger recently and I bought a Stanley.
Watch out for the Schumacher's. They will overcharge at 15.5V
That's nothing my last Schumacher went up to over 16.1v
Im guessing that these Schumachers aren't intended for maintenance (they arent), and so are designed to bring a dead battery up and then equalize the cells. You need to go that high to equalize, otherwise the highest cell will drive the situation and the lowest will remain undercharged.
Not advocating the practice, just my speculation, and an OK process to implement in some situations...
FYI, the ProLogix 2320 is $63 right now on Amazon.
I've got the PL2310 for 4D diesel batteries. For a bulk charger it does well. On a 7 year old 4D battery that needs replacing initial reading was 66% charge 12.3v. Set it at 10amp for 3 days. Battery holds 90% charge for 3 days and 85% charge for 1 week. Not bad considering it's an abused battery.
Presently charging a 6 year 24F battery that needs replacing. Initial read 0% and 11.1v set at 10amp. The Pro-Logix is in the energizing stage trying to break up sulphation. It's the first time I've seen this stage go on. Charging at 15.5v lots of bubbles. I'll see how well the Pro-Logix charger can desuphate this battery.
An interesting read as the battery cables are not connected.
http://www.faymarine.com/Pauls Information Site/Battery_desulphation.htm
Presently charging a 6 year 24F battery that needs replacing. Initial read 0% and 11.1v set at 10amp. The Pro-Logix is in the energizing stage trying to break up sulphation. It's the first time I've seen this stage go on. Charging at 15.5v lots of bubbles. I'll see how well the Pro-Logix charger can desuphate this battery.
An interesting read as the battery cables are not connected.
http://www.faymarine.com/Pauls Information Site/Battery_desulphation.htm
You could probably benefit from the 20 amp version if you're charging 4D batteries
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