Australian Anti-Gun Lobby

[Shannow]

Haven't, and to the best of my knowledge, never been used in a crime downunder (we would certainly know about it I'm sure).

The cries to the media are made to be inflamatory, and provoke a response in the ignorant public.
* Anti tank rifle;
* elephant gun;
* sniper rifle;
* Dirty Harry

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

In some ways I kinda like AU, it's got a very small population that is not PC at all compared to the USA.

Also got lots of uninhabited area to get away to and shoot to your hearts content.

But, the government is really heavy handed and there are no personal freedoms except what is explicitly given by the government. Thats what a monarchy is.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
In some ways I kinda like AU, it's got a very small population that is not PC at all compared to the USA.

Also got lots of uninhabited area to get away to and shoot to your hearts content.

But, the government is really heavy handed and there are no personal freedoms except what is explicitly given by the government. Thats what a monarchy is.


I agree. It seems like a beautiful country and a good place to live except for the intrusive government that focuses on the wrong things.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Haven't, and to the best of my knowledge, never been used in a crime downunder (we would certainly know about it I'm sure).

The cries to the media are made to be inflamatory, and provoke a response in the ignorant public.
* Anti tank rifle;
* elephant gun;
* sniper rifle;
* Dirty Harry


I'm sure you will sleep easier now that the gun problem has been dealt with! Sounds like an important law dealing with a critical problem.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Search on Youtube for: Ted Nugent talks gun control
View the video entitled: TEXAS MONTHLY TALKS - TED NUGENT

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch


But, the government is really heavy handed and there are no personal freedoms except what is explicitly given by the government. Thats what a monarchy is.


Like many western countries Australia Is a Constitutional Monarchy.
They are able to form their own Bill of Rights and Freedoms.

Canada re-wrote it's Bill of Rights in the 80's

 

[Shannow]

We don't have a bill of rights.

When it's raised, TPTB argue that a Bill of Rights, by listing them then becomes a "limiting" document, rather than everything being a right until excluded.

Farcical

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Rhetorical questions escape some...

"The Antis" are working on 50 cal at the moment, using the emotional argument of anti tank weaponry rather than the fact that it's simply gun, controlled by a person.


When is the last time an Australian citizen shot an Australian tank with a 50 cal weapon?

LOL I guess people these days don't realise you need alot more than a .50 cal to take out a modern tank!

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
We don't have a bill of rights.

When it's raised, TPTB argue that a Bill of Rights, by listing them then becomes a "limiting" document, rather than everything being a right until excluded.

Farcical


Agree, But I was correcting the previous post.
You are Allowed to form a Bill of Rights if you and levels of government got together on it. It's not your monarchy preventing you.

I guess a BoR Could be limiting, the world is changing, definitions today might be ambiguous in years to come.

 

[Robenstein]

If you can rewrite a bill of rights, then they are not really rights, they are still just privileges that can be taken away. The problem with a place like Australia is that they have that heavy British tradition they did not have to fight to break away from. Read the English Bill of Rights, it has a second amendment sounding right in there, but atleast the founding fathers were smart enough to correct the issues with it.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
AU is not a democracy and they/we shouldnt even think they can enjoy the freedom that the USA has.

US is a Republic, not a democracy. And I like it.
Greece is, so is India..

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
AU is not a democracy and they/we shouldnt even think they can enjoy the freedom that the USA has.

US is a Republic, not a democracy. And I like it.
Greece is, so is India..


The United State's legislative structure is that of a Presidential Republic. The power is given to that Republic by a type of Representitive Demoracy, in which the people elect representatives to represent them in the legislature.

A Republic is what the government is. Democracy defines how the people choose who represent them. The two are not mutually exclusive. The United States is indeed both a Republic and a Democracy.

 

[Robenstein]

Democracy and Democratic are not the same. As mentioned, true Democracy is direct Democracy in which every citizen with voting rights votes directly on decisions. Pretty much like Ancient Athens was...of course direct Democracy was something the founding fathers both admired and greatly feared due to the constant threat of mob rule. No one wanted to trade one tyrant king 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away.

We are based more off the early Roman Republic than Athenian style Democracy. I do believe that is what y_k was after.

 

[2004tdigls]

i know my opinion will not be popular, but i support gun control, the numbers do not lie. Look at the gun deaths rate in countries like the USA (minimal gun control)and Canada (strict controls)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_world

the rate is double, most experts agree that the easy access to firearms fuels the death rate, USA gun ownership is twice as high compared to Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I assume the Australian Government is aware of these statistics.

I also have no problem with hunters owning bolt action rifles or shotguns, but i see no need for handguns or semiautomatic firearms (ak or m16 derivatives) in a civilized democracy.

With regards to the proposed 50 cal ban, I agree it is misguided, yes many 50 cal rifles can trace their linage to world war 2 antitank rifles, but a a ban based upon bullet caliber is stupid, all the gun designer has to do is bottleneck the cartridge for a smaller bullet and the illegal gun is now OK, barret 416 is a classic example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.416_Barrett

For the US, it is too late, the genie is out of the bottle and the country is awash with firearms, the Australians are trying to "keep the lid on"

And finally the connection between firearms and democracy is really a symbol of US culture, and has nothing to do with other democracies throughout the western world.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
i know my opinion will not be popular, but i support gun control, the numbers do not lie. Look at the gun deaths rate in countries like the USA (minimal gun control)and Canada (strict controls)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_world

the rate is double, most experts agree that the easy access to firearms fuels the death rate, USA gun ownership is twice as high compared to Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I assume the Australian Government is aware of these statistics.

I also have no problem with hunters owning bolt action rifles or shotguns, but i see no need for handguns or semiautomatic firearms (ak or m16 derivatives) in a civilized democracy.

With regards to the proposed 50 cal ban, I agree it is misguided, yes many 50 cal rifles can trace their linage to world war 2 antitank rifles, but a a ban based upon bullet caliber is stupid, all the gun designer has to do is bottleneck the cartridge for a smaller bullet and the illegal gun is now OK, barret 416 is a classic example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.416_Barrett

For the US, it is too late, the genie is out of the bottle and the country is awash with firearms, the Australians are trying to "keep the lid on"

And finally the connection between firearms and democracy is really a symbol of US culture, and has nothing to do with other democracies throughout the western world.



Our own department of justice statistics show that violent crrime is at its lowest since 1968 and that is SINCE we started backing off gun control. That is with double the population and 2x the amount of firearms. In most states with more strict gun control, violent crime is way higher than states with lax gun control. You are just looking at gun crime, not violent crime. As someone who was held at knifepoint once during a carjacking I see the need for civilian ownership of semiautomatic handguns.

And if you think its "civilized" out there sir, you are not really looking. And Canada is backing off on gun control as well. They just killed off their dumb long gun registration. You need to watch the Penn and Teller BullSh%# episode on gun control

 

[salesrep]

Should lead and brass be in the investments thread................YES!

 

[2004tdigls]

Canada is not backing off gun control they are removing long gun registration, obtaining a handgun is still quite difficult, obtaining an m16 or ak is virtually impossible

and i respect your opinion,i just don't agree with it

even though the crime rate is lower in your state, it is still several times higher than any Canadian province

i am sorry to hear your were a victim of violent crime, i pray it never happens to you again

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
i see no need for handguns or semiautomatic firearms (ak or m16 derivatives) in a civilized democracy.


That's the nice thing about a "right". You, our government, do gooders, etc don't have a say. I don't need to justify my ownership of my AK-47, or 1911 or Colt Trooper. I can buy one, because I don't have one, I can buy one because I want to shoot targets, I can buy one to saw in half.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
i see no need for handguns or semiautomatic firearms (ak or m16 derivatives) in a civilized democracy.


Oz is a classic example of why that logic doesn't work.

.40Cal Glock has never been legal to own as an individual for sporting purposes...and there are thousands out there in the hands of gangs,who are using them willingly.

Pistols have never been legal for personal protection (no gun is unless you are Rupert Murdoch and the like), but every night, houses in Sydney are getting sprayed with handgun fire.

Gang control would be more appropriate in reducing gun crime in Oz...legal gun owners nearly never appear in crime (unless it's trumped up stuff like cleaning a rifle with a beer in your hand, or your wife knowing where the keys to the gunsafe are).

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
Canada is not backing off gun control they are removing long gun registration, obtaining a handgun is still quite difficult, obtaining an m16 or ak is virtually impossible

and i respect your opinion,i just don't agree with it

even though the crime rate is lower in your state, it is still several times higher than any Canadian province

i am sorry to hear your were a victim of violent crime, i pray it never happens to you again



Really? Cause you can buy an AR15 up there. Marstar.ca sells them. My best friend lives in Ontario and was able to legally get one. And it is quite difficult here to get an M16 and an AK47 as well. They cost well over 10k dollars, are not available in every state, and you have to jump through many many hoops to get a permit for one. Now you can get sporter rifles, but not their aesthetically similar semi auto sporting cousins.

You show your general lack of knowledge about US gun laws sir. I was an FFL dealer and know them quite well. And Canada has about 10% of the U.S. population so by shear numbers alone there will be less murders in a similar nation with aprox 30 million versus 300 million people.

Also...registration is gun control. Hence abandoning it means you are backing off of it.

And to say that gun control works....look at Russia. Russia has had severe draconian gun control since the October Revolution and they have more violent crime than any other developed nation.

And yes I was a victim of violent crime...almost. The fact I had my 9mm on me kept me from getting stabbed and my car stolen. So until you have sat in my position you will not realize that every human being should have the right to self protection. Police are not there to prevent crime, their primary function is to solve crimes that are already committed. That does someone who was stabbed to death very little good.