Australian Anti-Gun Lobby

[Popinski]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
And here are some more plain and simple facts. The largest mass murder with firearms in recent history is in Norway. Adrews Brevik killed a lot of people in a nation that is quite strict on gun ownership and licensing.

People will find another way to kill people. One man in Japan used a car to run over people in a crowd, then got out and hacked them with a knife. All it takes is a deranged and determined mind to find a tool for extinguishing the life of another

IMHO gun violence is not a problem, but a symptom of a problem in a society and often we tend to want to treat symptoms instead of the root causes. And logically a criminal will not obey laws anyways, so any laws are usually ineffective. A black market or an alternative likes pipe bombs (easily made if you read some old field manuals or have the internet)will be a valid choice.


Rich countries where firearms are banned or heavily restricted are usually the safest countries in the world. Of course, if there's a rich country where firearms are banned but their country is corrupted, then yes, there will be deaths.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: Popinski
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
And here are some more plain and simple facts. The largest mass murder with firearms in recent history is in Norway. Adrews Brevik killed a lot of people in a nation that is quite strict on gun ownership and licensing.

People will find another way to kill people. One man in Japan used a car to run over people in a crowd, then got out and hacked them with a knife. All it takes is a deranged and determined mind to find a tool for extinguishing the life of another

IMHO gun violence is not a problem, but a symptom of a problem in a society and often we tend to want to treat symptoms instead of the root causes. And logically a criminal will not obey laws anyways, so any laws are usually ineffective. A black market or an alternative likes pipe bombs (easily made if you read some old field manuals or have the internet)will be a valid choice.


Rich countries where firearms are banned or heavily restricted are usually the safest countries in the world. Of course, if there's a rich country where firearms are banned but their country is corrupted, then yes, there will be deaths.


What rich country does not have corruption? The U.K. has had a dramatic increase in violent offenses since they implemented gun control. Sure shootings are down, but stabbings, beatings, violent burglaries, assaults....all up. In our nation, we have eased gun control since 2004 and violent crime is down. Plain and simple, criminals will always find a way to hurt you. When you take away the ability of someone to defend themselves by restricting or banning lawful ownership of guns, then you just hurt the good law abiding people as most die hard criminals do not really care about laws...that is what makes them criminals....its sort of what they do. LOL

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
Canada is not backing off gun control they are removing long gun registration, obtaining a handgun is still quite difficult, obtaining an m16 or ak is virtually impossible

and i respect your opinion,i just don't agree with it

even though the crime rate is lower in your state, it is still several times higher than any Canadian province

i am sorry to hear your were a victim of violent crime, i pray it never happens to you again



Really? Cause you can buy an AR15 up there. Marstar.ca sells them. My best friend lives in Ontario and was able to legally get one. And it is quite difficult here to get an M16 and an AK47 as well. They cost well over 10k dollars, are not available in every state, and you have to jump through many many hoops to get a permit for one. Now you can get sporter rifles, but not their aesthetically similar semi auto sporting cousins.

You show your general lack of knowledge about US gun laws sir. I was an FFL dealer and know them quite well. And Canada has about 10% of the U.S. population so by shear numbers alone there will be less murders in a similar nation with aprox 30 million versus 300 million people.

Also...registration is gun control. Hence abandoning it means you are backing off of it.

And to say that gun control works....look at Russia. Russia has had severe draconian gun control since the October Revolution and they have more violent crime than any other developed nation.

And yes I was a victim of violent crime...almost. The fact I had my 9mm on me kept me from getting stabbed and my car stolen. So until you have sat in my position you will not realize that every human being should have the right to self protection. Police are not there to prevent crime, their primary function is to solve crimes that are already committed. That does someone who was stabbed to death very little good.
I completely agree here. I live in Canada and I wish we had the ability to get a CCW permit here, Id be one of the first to get one. I hope you guys realise not all Canadians think like this guy, as many do support using a firearm for self-defense but it is never told in the controlled media. I grew up around guns and was taught at a young age how to safely handle and use them. Alot of people with this anti-gun attitude up here live in cities and have no clue about firearms other than what they see in the media and movies.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
i know my opinion will not be popular, but i support gun control, the numbers do not lie. Look at the gun deaths rate in countries like the USA (minimal gun control)and Canada (strict controls)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_world

the rate is double, most experts agree that the easy access to firearms fuels the death rate, USA gun ownership is twice as high compared to Canada.

I also have no problem with hunters owning bolt action rifles or shotguns, but i see no need for handguns or semiautomatic firearms (ak or m16 derivatives) in a civilized democracy.


What "fuels the firearm death rate" are criminals illegally possessing guns and using them to commit crimes. The majority of shooting are done by people who don't have a carry permit or can legally posses a firearm anyway. They don't buy them from a gun store, they buy stolen guns or steal guns themselves.

There is no gun law that will ever prevent criminals from obtaining guns unless you make all guns illegal and destroy every gun in existence. I doubt that will ever happen in the USA ... at least not for a very long time.

What needs to be happen is to have laws the seriously punish people who posses guns illegally and that use them in crimes.

I was talking about this very issue today at lunch with my co-workers, and wouldn't it be neat if the police could detect anyone who's carrying a concealed weapon so they could then approach that person if there was viable cause, and determine if he's legal to own that gun and has a valid carry permit for it. If not, he's arrested on the spot and punished severely for breaking the law. It might get a lot of illegal carriers off the streets.

Go after the criminals, not the law abiding citizen who has the right to own and protect himself with a firearm.

 

[Shannow]

Lumping firearm suicides with the firearm death rate also skews the stats.

Australians are killing themselves at a prodigious rate, but using ropes bridges and other stuff.

 

[Y_K]

Many of you remember the times when you could fly with your weapon. I wonder what would happen on 9/11? What's worse: a depressurized cabin or the picture of people jumping off the Twins Towers?

 

[Astro14]

I know I'm going a bit OT with this but:

A few bullet holes aren't going to depressurize the cabin...

Airborne LE use Speer Gold Dot JHPs...round effectiveness is paramount for the safety of those on board and potential ground targets in a post 9-11 world...holes in fuselages are far less important...

 

[Y_K]

Even better, we could boost real economy selling more of those to housewives and German tourists..

 

[Shannow]

Thanks Astro, it's hard trying to convince people that a hole or two isn't going to lift the lid like it does on the big screen...and that cars rarely "blow-up" like they do in Hollywood.