Audi A4 vs. BMW 3-series for the DIY'er...?

[partspro]

I have a buddy who is a VW/Audi mechanic and he drives an A4 1.8 Turbo AWD. He is the first to say that Audi requires lots of maintenance. He bought his with about 80K miles and just before 100k he replaced all the control arms (easier than rebushing them). Timing belt and water pump and reseal the front of the motor. Oil changes were always Mobil 1 0w40. He seafoamed the motor a couple of times because of the reported sludge issues. Audi and VW has a Coil-on Plug replacement program due to high failures of these parts.

I used to own a v8 BMW 530, didn't keep it more than 3 years so no personal experience except for a leaking oil pan, a known issue on that vehicle. Was not happy that I just had the oil changed at the dealership and they hadn't spotted the leaking pan. Still it was fixed without charge but it was one more trip to the dealer.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

Perhaps you should isolate your complaints to VAG family products? As that's where most your criticisms appear to lie. BMW to work on, at least for me, has been as described by the person you've quoted: very logical with a specific "process" to do anything on the car.


No, BMW does use some unnaturally brittle plastics, blind fasteners, indecipherable symbols, and that wretched black cloth tape too, but once you get past the covers the wiring is logical.

I don't even know what kind of plastic it is. Maybe polystyrene. A similar cover would normally be polypropylene on a US or Japanese made car and you can snap it and unsnap it many times.


I've experienced that with the plastic on the cowl cover on mine, but that's the only spot

Supposedly this is also limited to the N/A cars (this spot).

I've no experience with indecipherable symbols? Though it may have been you that I had the discussion about the steering wheel control symbols with

 

[hattaresguy]

I never had any issues working on any German cars. There cloth electrical tape is easy to buy and quite good. Unlike cheap American [censored] that's brittle after 20 years its not.

I always have several rolls of the stuff on hand, I'm surprised your shop doesn't use it.

 

[CBR.worm]

I have had no problems doing DIY work on BMW's on and off since the 80's.

The two Audi's we have owned, a '98 A8 and '04 A4 1.8t, were both fairly difficult to work on. The A4 was so hard to work on and required so much work after the warranty ran out I started to take it to a shop just because I was sick of dealing with it. I think some of it was due to having the tranny replaced at 7K miles, it was one thing after another for the next 50K until I couldn't deal with it any longer. When the plastic dipstick tube, alternator pulley and hood release all broke within 2 days of each other I traded it in.

The German cars definitely have a different engineering logic than american and japanese cars. They are simple in a very complex way. Things that you would expect to be difficult are very easy. Things that should be easy are difficult.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
... Thier cloth electrical tape is easy to buy and quite good. Unlike cheap American [censored] that's brittle after 20 years its not.

I always have several rolls of the stuff on hand, I'm surprised your shop doesn't use it.


I don't use electrical tape very often. When I do, I use 3M Super 33. The cloth tape will rot before the Super 33 does. Neither is very good in proximety to a light colored interior but the Super33 is less likely to stain than the greasy adhesive in the cloth tape


Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
...

The German cars definitely have a different engineering logic than american and japanese cars. They are simple in a very complex way. Things that you would expect to be difficult are very easy. Things that should be easy are difficult.

I like that. That sums up my opinion

The belts on my mom's old Audi 4000 spontaneously flung themselves off while I was borrowing it. Replacing the alternator belt was okay. It could have been more user friendly but it wasn't bad. The A/C belt ran around the front engine mount. I had to remove the mount to put a new belt on.

Replacing an accessory belt should be easy. It was anything but.

 

[d00df00d]

I'm trying to think of maintenance operations on my BMW that should be easy but are difficult, and I can't really come up with anything. When I think of how easy or difficult any given repair is on my car, the difficulty is inversely proportional to how often I have to do it; e.g., oil changes are almost insultingly easy, while the starter motor is a royal PITA but almost never needs to be replaced.

 

[spackard]

Not that you're looking for expensive electrical tape, but Scotch® 27 Glass Cloth Electrical Tape (white colored) is really good stuff. The adhesive is thermosetting, which means it's good but not residue-y at normal temperatures and sets when exposed to 130C heat. It won't stretch like normal electrical tape, but it is good in hot environments.
Just keep an eye on EBay for it, as it's very expensive.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Of course, the biggest DIY being the annual oil changes, they both are very easy to do with an oil vac.

Not quite. He's looking at a 2010 model year. Neither the 3-series nor the A4 has an oil dipstick these days, but at least the A4 has a dipstick tube so that the use of an oil extractor is still possible.


Isn't it a $250 "option" on the BMW-s?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Of course, the biggest DIY being the annual oil changes, they both are very easy to do with an oil vac.

Not quite. He's looking at a 2010 model year. Neither the 3-series nor the A4 has an oil dipstick these days, but at least the A4 has a dipstick tube so that the use of an oil extractor is still possible.


Isn't it a $250 "option" on the BMW-s?

Nope. There is no dipstick tube at all on some of these newer 3-series engines. Not even as an option.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Then there is the indecipherable labeling. Is this the component I'm looking for? It's marked with an exclamation point and a schwa. What that's supposed to mean?


I hear you. On the other hand, almost every part on a German automobile is labeled with the part number, which makes finding a replacement much easier than even a North American part with no labeling, English or otherwise.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Then there is the indecipherable labeling. Is this the component I'm looking for? It's marked with an exclamation point and a schwa. What that's supposed to mean?


I hear you. On the other hand, almost every part on a German automobile is labeled with the part number, which makes finding a replacement much easier than even a North American part with no labeling, English or otherwise.


Ford parts typically have an engineering number that indicate the decade, year within the decade, product line, source, ...etc...
Most countermonkeys cannot do anything with the engineering number but a talented counterman can often use it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Ford parts typically have an engineering number that indicate the decade, year within the decade, product line, source, ...etc...
Most countermonkeys cannot do anything with the engineering number but a talented counterman can often use it.


That's definitely good to know. With my old Audi, the part number could be inputed into my favorite part site's search engine, and up would pop the appropriate part, regardless of whether they knew if it actually belonged to my vehicle. That definitely saved me with my alternator adjuster bolt, since the site didn't have it listed for my car, even though they stocked it by part number. The dealer was clueless, though.

I have seen what you've pointed out though - I yank a part I know is defective, but different sources call it different things (or worse yet, two different parts share the same name), and it's plastered with German and hieroglyphics. The throttle switch and the two separate coolant temperature sensors are good examples.