Analyses from Butler

Cicero · Mar 31, 2005

Have 32 year old BMW Boxer. Runs great to perfect on ANY 20W50, with or without moly. That being said, after many years of Castrol GTX or Syn I now only use AMSoil V-T 20W50 and it's never run better. I'm flat floored by how smooth, quiet, cooler and lively this oil is compared to the Syntec (auto oil) I was using. When I try one of these Mobil 1oils in my bike it will be the V-Twin version only. 19.9 looks interesting and Redline league.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Amsoil has no moly.

wileyE · Mar 31, 2005

Bud just bought a 05 triumph t1000? (old 650 replica). He's befuddled over triumphs recommendation to dump the 1st oil at 500miles, then refill with mobile mx4t every 7500 miles. This goes against all he's ever heard about synthetics during breakin and long OCI on bikes. He's a "do it buy the book" type a fella though, so we'll see how it works out. This is the 1st time I've heard of a manufacturer citing a brand of oil to use, other than their own.

Hammer · Mar 31, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
From some of the oil analyses here, Delo 400 shows to have moly in it.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000240#000000

Your right, the new CI-4+ Delo 400 has Moly in it. The older Ci-4 (non plus) and previous did NOT have moly and therefore isn't a problem in my bike. That is why, I will probably use Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 on my next oil change in this bike because i don't want to chance the new moly fortified Delo causing the same Mobil-1 problems with my starter clutch.

Hammer

Huhwhye · Mar 31, 2005

Tell your bud with the Triumph that they use Mobil 1 for their Sportbikes. They even have a Mobil 1T bottled for Triumphs, you can see it at any dealer $$$. My friend has a 2000 Daytona 955 and ran it in according to Triumph instructions. He ran Mobil 1T for a while. But that stuff was expensive, now he runs Amsoil. 40k on his bike and that's nothing. There a local guy, don't know him but saw the bike at the dealer getting serviced, Mobil 1 and 250k on the motor, a Sprint ST 955, and that was a while ago. I think they know what they are doing.

BTW that T100 is a nice bike. If I had more $$ I'd buy one tommorow.

msparks · Mar 31, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by wileyE:
Bud just bought a 05 triumph t1000? (old 650 replica). He's befuddled over triumphs recommendation to dump the 1st oil at 500miles, then refill with mobile mx4t every 7500 miles. This goes against all he's ever heard about synthetics during breakin and long OCI on bikes. He's a "do it buy the book" type a fella though, so we'll see how it works out. This is the 1st time I've heard of a manufacturer citing a brand of oil to use, other than their own.

Wait until he has to buy that stuff. It's $50/gallon at the dealer.

Have your bud check out my triumph sponsor webpage.
http://lube-direct.com/triumph/

Mackelroy · Apr 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by HALSTEADTW:
Just want to say Mobil 1 Mx4T = RIPOFF! atleast compared to old redcap or even the new EP stuff. Shame on you mobil.

I guess it depends on how read of the numbers posted. The MX4t shows significant higher anti wear componentry and better startup flow. Looking at the results, I'd have to increase oil changes with EP over my present MX4T, but it does look usuable.

Is $2.98 per quart more MX4T worth it, I know it performs well.

[ April 01, 2005, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Mackelroy ]

medic · Apr 1, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
And check that LAME add pack on the 9 buck a quart HD stuff! Foolish purchase for those who are using it--no doubt about it.

There may be more to that additive package than you see. There are other items used in motor oil that aren't tested for. While I am not trying to defend Harley's high price for this stuff, there is more to a book than just the cover. Who knows what the magnesium is for. This may be similar to the high amount of sodium we are seeing in the new API SM oils.

A few oils have shown high Na for a few years. It was always refered to as "old technology" until Mobil started to do it. Suddenly it is something big and new. Now the question is if the Na we are seeing is old technology in some oils and new in others? Harley could be on the cutting edge of technology with this stuff and we just don't know it.

Their oil filters prove that they do care about what you use in your bike. They could've had Fram build cheap filters, but instead they had champion build them with an expensive design.

fuel tanker man · Apr 1, 2005

Medic,

I did a search here on Magnesium. Molakule has some interesting things to say about it. Unless I read incorrectly, Mobil and Amsoil have tried high Magnesium levels in the past, and have phased it out in more recent oils. 'Course that could be due to EPA restrictions--I don't know...

Molakule mentioned that high Magnesium levels might simply be part of an additive compound with a "higher purpose," so to speak.

Yes, it's possible that HD may know more than we may want to give them credit for. All I can go on is the very high price of the 360 dino. That's good oil too, but other oils can be had for less than half the asking price which do the same job--or in some cases a better job.

I think if I were going to use a synthetic in my HD I'd trust Mobil or Amsoil over what Citgo is doing with the Syn3 stuff. That doesn't make me right--I'm just saying that's what I would do.

Dan

TooSlick · Apr 1, 2005

Amsoil uses a calcium based detergent chemistry in applications where high temp, piston deposit control is one of the main formulation drivers. These include turbocharged diesel engines and very hot running, motorcycle/ATV engines.

Amsoil generally uses a mixture of Ca and Mg where control of low temp sludging (from fuel/moisture) is more of an issue due to short duty cycles. This is the formulation chemistry you'll find in their current passenger car, gas engine oils.

I hope this clarifies the issue....

Tooslick

LVHospiceRN · Apr 4, 2005

quote:

Harley could be on the cutting edge of technology with this stuff and we just don't know it.[/QB]

harley, the company, has been on the cutting edge for years.

Example: There brake system. harleys have had Anti-Lock brakes for YEARS. No matter how hard you squeezed the lever/stomped on the pedal, the brakes just wouldn't lock the tire up!!

I grant ya, they did/do sell a decent oil filter at a fairly high price. A ST 3600 cross matches with my bike and visually at least, i tore one open, is very simular.

The company sold out to the yuppies years ago. Who else can afford: a)the price of their bikes, b)the cost of their t-shirts/"accesories". Not that is wasnt a great business decision. Yuppies are the one with disposable income and that is the group that you want to sell "non-essential" goods too. THEY can afford $20,000 motorcycles and afford the $30-35 t shirts that are SOOO kewl.

Their "dealerships" put the word, "STEAL" in "stealerships". Of course the new bikes are more reliable...MOST of the yuppies dont ride them far enough for them to get any wear.

climbing down off soap box...

Just IMHO
darrell
sin city

medic · Apr 6, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by LVHospiceRN:
The company sold out to the yuppies years ago. Who else can afford: a)the price of their bikes, b)the cost of their t-shirts/"accesories". Not that is wasnt a great business decision. Yuppies are the one with disposable income and that is the group that you want to sell "non-essential" goods too. THEY can afford $20,000 motorcycles and afford the $30-35 t shirts that are SOOO kewl.

I can lock up both my front and rear brake with no problem. I could manage this on my older electraglide also. My Yamaha was another story

I am gonna assume that you think only yuppies ride motorcycles.

05 Halrey ElectraGlide Classic MSRP: $17,245
05 Honda Goldwing MSRP: $18,599
05 Harley 883 Sportster MSRP: $6,495
05 Honda Shadow 750 MSRP: $6,399

Hmmm, looks like Harley's prices are pretty competative. The difference is that a used Harley will cost more than another similar used bike. Honestly, I think this will change soon. The market is becoming flooded with used Harleys. The law of supply and demand will take over eventually.

fuel tanker man · Apr 6, 2005

And you know what tweaks me?

Those *** Harley wannabe bikes! Like the Yamaha "Star" line of garbage.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It looks from a distance like the real thing--but it ain't.

Sort of like having a transvestite for a girlfriend...

Dan

medic · Apr 6, 2005

I know a guy who has a Suzuki Intruder. He went to the Harley dealership and bought stock saddle bags for a Road King. Why spend that kind of $$$ on a bike when you want everybody to think you're riding the real thing? We used to pick on him and ask him when he was gonna get a bike to match his saddle bags. IMO, he asked for this abuse by being a "wanna be". We would've never picked on him for riding a Suzuki if he didn't try to make people think it was a Harley.

This same guy went 30k miles without changing his air filter. The increased friction from the dust toasted his carbs.

Vstrom · Apr 6, 2005

quote:

This same guy went 30k miles without changing his air filter. The increased friction from the dust toasted his carbs. [/QB]

Increased friction toasted his carbs?
Huh? Please elaborate

Vstrom · Apr 6, 2005

quote:

Of course the new bikes are more reliable...MOST of the yuppies dont ride them far enough for them to get any wear.

Didja know 90% of Harleys are still on the road?

The other 10% made it home

Sorry couldn't resist

fuel tanker man · Apr 7, 2005

Yeah, I know a guy (and he's a great guy--really) who bought a Suzuki Intruder.

He took all the Suzuki emblems off that bike--and Suzuki actually made the emblems removeable!

God where will the foolishness end?

It's like sticking a potato in the crotch of your trousers! Geek!!

Sooner or later your ruse will be discovered.

Back on subject:

My bud rides a Suzuki Hayabusa (no substitute for that wicked rascal). We poke around a bit at the Hayabusa forums and lots of those guys are using the new Mobil 1 EP 15W50 (goldcap), now that redcap has been replaced. They report excellent results, even in the turbo charged 250+ HP models. So the Mobil 1's moly level is definitely not a problem for more modern clutch assemblies.

Dan

LVHospiceRN · Apr 7, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by medic:

quote:

Originally posted by LVHospiceRN:
The company sold out to the yuppies years ago. Who else can afford: a)the price of their bikes, b)the cost of their t-shirts/"accesories". Not that is wasnt a great business decision. Yuppies are the one with disposable income and that is the group that you want to sell "non-essential" goods too. THEY can afford $20,000 motorcycles and afford the $30-35 t shirts that are SOOO kewl.

Click to expand...

I can lock up both my front and rear brake with no problem. I could manage this on my older electraglide also. My Yamaha was another story

I am gonna assume that you think only yuppies ride motorcycles.

05 Halrey ElectraGlide Classic MSRP: $17,245
05 Honda Goldwing MSRP: $18,599
05 Harley 883 Sportster MSRP: $6,495
05 Honda Shadow 750 MSRP: $6,399

Hmmm, looks like Harley's prices are pretty competative. The difference is that a used Harley will cost more than another similar used bike. Honestly, I think this will change soon. The market is becoming flooded with used Harleys. The law of supply and demand will take over eventually.

LVHospiceRN · Apr 7, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by LVHospiceRN:

quote:

Originally posted by medic:

quote:

Originally posted by LVHospiceRN:
The company sold out to the yuppies years ago. Who else can afford: a)the price of their bikes, b)the cost of their t-shirts/"accesories". Not that is wasnt a great business decision. Yuppies are the one with disposable income and that is the group that you want to sell "non-essential" goods too. THEY can afford $20,000 motorcycles and afford the $30-35 t shirts that are SOOO kewl.

Click to expand...

I can lock up both my front and rear brake with no problem. I could manage this on my older electraglide also. My Yamaha was another story

I am gonna assume that you think only yuppies ride motorcycles.

05 Halrey ElectraGlide Classic MSRP: $17,245
05 Honda Goldwing MSRP: $18,599
05 Harley 883 Sportster MSRP: $6,495
05 Honda Shadow 750 MSRP: $6,399

Hmmm, looks like Harley's prices are pretty competative. The difference is that a used Harley will cost more than another similar used bike. Honestly, I think this will change soon. The market is becoming flooded with used Harleys. The law of supply and demand will take over eventually.

Click to expand...

No, not all harleys are ridden by wannabe's or yuppies...i dont consider my either and i ride one

Not sure where you are medic but try BUYING one of the dang things from a "stealership". The dealers here in vegas grossly mark them up, THOUSANDS over MSRP. You can Buy one at MSRP if you pay 1/2 up front and get on the waiting list, estimated date of delivery around a year....

Screw the company, i won't darken their doorstep with my shadow...i love my scooter, but hate the company...

darrell
sin city

Cycle Freak · Apr 7, 2005

I have been riding for about 25 Years. Every year I go to open houses at Japanese dealerships and see "Harley" looking guys checking out the NEW *** bikes and I make it a point to approach these guys and compliment them on whatever bike they are looking at to confirm what I already know, they got rid of their harley because they got tired of the onerous maintenance and tired of interrupted long distance trips with badly broken bikes.

How is a Harley like a hound dog?
They both like to leave their mark and ride in the back of pickup trucks.

fuel tanker man · Apr 8, 2005

And how is a Japanese HD knockoff bike like a transvestite?

Go for it dude!

Analyses from Butler

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