Amsoil XL 5w30, 10K OCI, 2006 Expeditition

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Well .... this ought to give you guys something to talk about ....

Code:


OIL Amsoil Castrol 5w30 Mobil 1 Castrol 5w30 Castrol 5w30

XL 5w30 Edge 5w30 Edge Edge

High Mileage High Mileage Gold Bottle Gold Bottle



MILES IN USE 9,962 9,787 6,856 9,060 9,980

MILES 200,003 190,041 172,300 158,145 149,085

SAMPLE TAKEN 5/15/18 11/8/17 02/18/17 06/16/16 01/14/16





Metals (ppm)

IRON 14 51 110 71 88

CHROMIUM 1
LEAD 8
COPPER 7 2 3 3 4

TIN
ALUMINUM
NICKEL
SILVER
TITANIUM 19 22
VANADIUM


Contaminants (ppm)

SILICON 12 12 15 11 12

SODIUM [103] 15 34 24 18

POTASSIUM


Additives (ppm)

MAGNESIUM 486 85 1048 154 278

CALCIUM 1229 2202 1375 1770 1990

BARIUM
PHOSPHORUS 864 648 900 637 648

ZINC 1035 796 970 667 755

MOLYBDENUM 38 79 95 66 69

BORON 112 52 200 62 58



Contaminants

WATER (%)
Coolant No No No No No



Physical Tests

Visc (cSt 100C) [17.9] 10.3 9.0 9.0 8.9



TBN (mgKOH/g) 7.3 1.2 3.0 1.4 2.4


[Brackets] are flagged values on the report.

Report comments:
All engine wear rates normal. Sodium level (possible
oil additive/coolant chemical) elevated. Other
contaminant levels acceptable. Viscosity high for
specified oil grade. Action: Advise monitor coolant topup
rate as a precaution. As oil and filter(s) already
changed, resample at a reduced service interval to
further monitor.


I talked to the head lab technician at Oil Analyzers and confirmed that Sodium is not an additive in the Amsoil XL. I discussed this with him at great length and got his thoughts on the analysis as a whole, even though they didn't do the analysis. Talk about customer service! he was super helpful in analyzing the results over the phone.

I also talked to the technician on the phone who did the actual analysis. the numbers were ran twice and the viscosity and TBN readings are accurate.

I have an action plan in mind, but i thought i'd post this up here to see where the discussion leads.
 
looking at the iron, thicker oil lowers the iron or the engine is finally broke in.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
looking at the iron, thicker oil lowers the iron or the engine is finally broke in.

Engine has 200,000 miles. I'm going to venture a guess that the engine has been broken in.
 
Thickened to a 50wt and still has a 7.3 TBN and a quarter of the iron as previous?

This will be a VERY interesting discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would stick with the AMSOIL!

x2
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The silicon also stands out. Do you have an internal coolant leak perhaps?


This is the lab's guess. both Oil Analyzers and ATS suspect a very very small internal coolant leak. They are basing this off the viscosity increase and the very high TBN. i was surprised to see that the potassium wasn't elevated, but the lab said that it depends greatly on the chemistry of the coolant.

the TBN is stupid high. the virgin oil is a TBN of 10. i've got a sample of this same oil after 752 miles and the TBN dropped to 6, so for a 10K run, a TBN of 7 is just stupid high. Their explanation is that the coolant is very alkaline which will give a high TBN reading.

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I wonder about the sodium but also your lead and copper jumped up a bit.


i hadn't really noticed that, but you are right. i'm not sure where copper and lead would come from in this engine though. the bearings are aluminum alloy and as best i understood have no lead or copper in them, and the cams ride directly on the aluminum head. Normally i would agree that the lead and copper are coming from main bearings, but i'm not sure that's the case in the ford modular engines.

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
I wouldn't take this analysis to seriously, have another one done soon. Too many numbers here are out of the expected range.


That is the plan. i'm going to take a sample from the dipstick around 5k and then decide what to do from there.

i'd say it's time for daddy to get a new truck, but daddy just bought mommy a new car, and baby #3 is on the way so daddy might have to fix his current truck ....
 
Last edited:
How's the air intake tract? Some of the silicon might be from dirt ingestion too, which would explain the extremely high iron readings earlier on.
 
Those are some wild results. I think there is a coolant leak. I would take a sample as soon as possible to get a UOA on it with very low miles. The. Get another at 5k miles. That will tell you a lot. You would be testing the same oil twice and you’ll be able to see if sodium increases significantly and see the trend in everything else. Coolant leaks can increase oil viscosity. Only Amsoil thickened a lot. Yet it’s wear results look good. It’s TBN is so high as to be impossible to explain. All of the other oils had iron and aluminum wear issues. M1 had particularly high wear levels.
 
Easy explanation - those aren't your UOA results. Lab mixed up samples, it happens.

Viscosity way too high even for thickening on a 10k run, too much Zn, Amsoil doesn't use Ti and it wouldn't be left over...
 
I think addyguy is right. It looks like the sample got mixed up, or screwed up take your pick. I'd disregard it [for now] and do another UOA next time.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Easy explanation - those aren't your UOA results. Lab mixed up samples, it happens.

Viscosity way too high even for thickening on a 10k run, too much Zn, Amsoil doesn't use Ti and it wouldn't be left over...


I think you are absolutely right

compare the latest results to an earlier sample of Amsoil XL sampled at very low miles.

Code:


OIL Amsoil

XL 5w30





MILES IN USE 752

MILES 173,052

SAMPLE TAKEN 03/10/17





Metals (ppm)

IRON 21

CHROMIUM
LEAD
COPPER
TIN 2

ALUMINUM 7

NICKEL
SILVER
TITANIUM
VANADIUM


Contaminants (ppm)

SILICON 11

SODIUM 22

POTASSIUM 10



Additives (ppm)

MAGNESIUM 150

CALCIUM 2854

BARIUM
PHOSPHORUS 878

ZINC 895

MOLYBDENUM 101

BORON 200



Contaminants

WATER (%)
Coolant No



Physical Tests

Visc (cSt 100C) 10.9



TBN (mgKOH/g) 6.0


Code:


OIL Amsoil Castrol 5w30 Mobil 1 Castrol 5w30 Castrol 5w30

XL 5w30 Edge 5w30 Edge Edge

High Mileage High Mileage Gold Bottle Gold Bottle



MILES IN USE 9,962 9,787 6,856 9,060 9,980

MILES 200,003 190,041 172,300 158,145 149,085

SAMPLE TAKEN 5/15/18 11/8/17 02/18/17 06/16/16 01/14/16





Metals (ppm)

IRON 14 51 110 71 88

CHROMIUM 1
LEAD 8
COPPER 7 2 3 3 4

TIN
ALUMINUM
NICKEL
SILVER
TITANIUM 19 22
VANADIUM


Contaminants (ppm)

SILICON 12 12 15 11 12

SODIUM 103 15 34 24 18

POTASSIUM


Additives (ppm)

MAGNESIUM 486 85 1048 154 278

CALCIUM 1229 2202 1375 1770 1990

BARIUM
PHOSPHORUS 864 648 900 637 648

ZINC 1035 796 970 667 755

MOLYBDENUM 38 79 95 66 69

BORON 112 52 200 62 58



Contaminants

WATER (%)
Coolant No No No No No



Physical Tests

Visc (cSt 100C) 17.9 10.3 9.0 9.0 8.9



TBN (mgKOH/g) 7.3 1.2 3.0 1.4 2.4



Moly, zinc, calcium and titanium all don't jive.

the low mileage amsoil sample was taken right after a fill of Castrol with Titanium, and none of it was retained.

i don't think this is the oil i sent in.
makes me wish i had kept a back up. i normally do because i've had troubles with them getting lost in the mail, but this time i did not.

Plan remains the same.... sample at 5k and decide from there.

maybe i'll spend a couple of extra bucks and have it sent to two labs.... we will see.
 
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