Amsoil ACD or HDD for 3 Rigs

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Hello All,

I am in the natural resource business so I travel lots of highway miles combined with occasional towing and off road driving. I want to stock one oil for everything. I have narrowed it down to Amsoil ACD 10w-30/30 and HDD 5w-30 both oils work in the diesel, protect the flat tappets in the rover and be thin enough for the jeep. I would appreciate everyone's opinion as well as experience with oils for the following rigs.

The Rigs
All are in great shape.

1995 f-350 7.3 Powerstroke 265k chipped, electric fuel, Duralite "6637" air cleaner
Current Oil Rotella T6

2004 Jeep WJ 4.7 HO 140k soon to be SCT tuned
Current Oil M1 10-30

1999 Land Rover Discovery 1 145k Crower cam (flat tappets)
Current oil Amsoil 20-50

Thanks in advance
 
ACD is probably a better value, but HDD is a killer oil. Your choice really. What kind of OCI are you looking at?

Make sure you sign up as a PC (preferred customer) with Pablo.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
What kind of OCI are you looking at?


I would like to extend my OCI as long as possible I was thinking 10K or one year. Of course UOA would be necessary to confirm.

Which oil would last longer? How does the add pack differ? I noticed Amsoil had different recommendations for gasoline service with HDD.
 
I'm running ACD in my '01 Blazers and the g/f '00 RAV4 w/roughly 10K OCI's. the Blazer sees 300 mi/wk all hyway.
the RAV sees 80 NYC street miles a week plus the same highway run as the Blazer. hoping to push the Blazer to 15k/1yr OCI.
last RAV4 analysis turned 170K and is due for a change.
last Blazer analysis 135K and still 3K out to next change.
I think this is a great oil for the $$$ and would serve you well.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
PCO in the 7.3

ACD in the others


Not a bad idea the 7.3 might use a little too much oil with the 30wt ACD, PCO or AME may be in its future. Still have some stockpile left so in not in a hurry.

Thanks for the help.
 
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AMO
AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil is a multi-use, premium synthetic lubricant for applications that require or benefit from a higher viscosity oil. It is recommended for air and liquid cooled, large or small gasoline and diesel engines, transmissions and chaincase applications where 10W-40 oil is required with any of the following specifications:

•API SL, SJ, SH, SG
•API CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF, CF-2
•ISO-L-EMA • Caterpillar ECF-1
•JASO MA (Motorcycle) • MAN 271/3275 • MTU Type 2
•Cummins 20071/20072/20076/20077 • VDS-2, VDS
•Mack EO-M+ • ACEA A3/B3, E3, E5 • MB 228.3, 229.1
•Detroit Diesel 93K214
 
Can the Amsoil ACD 10w30 be used in a 2007 6.0 Powerstroke? My next oil change I was thinking to switching over to the Amsoil ACD 10w30...
 
I'd go PCO in all.

In Texas, 15W-40 isn't too thick for anything; and a 40-weight would be a good 'safety cushion' for all applications.
 
Originally Posted By: Powerstroke
Can the Amsoil ACD 10w30 be used in a 2007 6.0 Powerstroke? My next oil change I was thinking to switching over to the Amsoil ACD 10w30...

I'm going back to a 15w-40 in my '07 Dodge Cummins - I've used the HDD (5w-30) for the last 2 fills while pulling my trailer and I'm seeing too much iron & hearing too much noise to go that light again. I'll be posting my last UOA but Blackstone said that 16k miles was way too much considering all the iron & copper. This is with the Amisoil bypass and main filters.
I'm suggesting that you don't go with the 10w-30 if you do any pulling in Tx - I live in the Seattle area and the 5w-30 was too light.
 
Originally Posted By: LouieLouie
Originally Posted By: Powerstroke
Can the Amsoil ACD 10w30 be used in a 2007 6.0 Powerstroke? My next oil change I was thinking to switching over to the Amsoil ACD 10w30...

I'm going back to a 15w-40 in my '07 Dodge Cummins - I've used the HDD (5w-30) for the last 2 fills while pulling my trailer and I'm seeing too much iron & hearing too much noise to go that light again. I'll be posting my last UOA but Blackstone said that 16k miles was way too much considering all the iron & copper. This is with the Amisoil bypass and main filters.
I'm suggesting that you don't go with the 10w-30 if you do any pulling in Tx - I live in the Seattle area and the 5w-30 was too light.


LouieLouie:
I must admit I don't know a lot about your situation, as you only have 2 posts at this point. However, I think there is something that needs to be pointed out.

High Fe and Cu in Amsoil UOAs is well documented, and happens just as often with their 15w-40 products as it does with lighter grades. I find it unfair to blame the grade for your numbers without a lot more insight. It's genearlly accepted as a "chemistry" reaction to the Amsoil additives. Of course, this is a huge generalization, but plays into a lot of Amsoil UOAs. Futher, this phenomenon is not limited to Amsoil, as we've seen it with RL, RP, and even TDT. Amsoil is the product line that predominantly shows this trait, but it's also fair to note that Amsoil has a large market share in the HDEO syn niche, and so the predominance is partly due to the high level of sales volume they have.

I've used 10w-30 dino HDEO in my Dmax, flogged the living poo out of it while pulling my travel trailer in CO and UT in the heat of summer, and got nothing but stellar results. Lighter grade oils are typically not the cause of high wear if they are within the OEM spec'd fluid range. There are many of us that use 10w-30 HDEO, pull heavy loads, and have nothing but praise for the fluids.

My point is that you're throwing a blanket of blame about your high wear metal counts on the lube grade, and it's likely the Amsoil chemistry that is at the root of the issue.


**************

willypete
I'd have to suggest not using Amsoil at all, nor any synthetic for that matter. At max OCIs of 10k miles, you could likely get good service from a quality dino 10w-30 HDEO in TX. I suggest you consider a dino like Rotella, Delvac or Delo in 10w-30; the Rotella is becoming fairly easy to find at farm stores and I've even seen it in some O'Rielly parts stores recently. Or, consider T5 or JT8 in semi-syn. They are very robust and will serve all your needs. The JT8 is especially cost effective; I've seen it for $25/2-gallon container.

You certainly can use Amsoil; they are very good products with a strong, solid, well-earned reputation. But your OCI plan isn't going to come anywhere close to getting a decent ROI, and you'll be wasting money big time by using such an expensive fluid.

If you're dead set on Amsoil, then I agree with Pablo on the use of HDD, and then stretch your OCIs out WAY past 10k miles, using UOAs as your guide and not a calendar or odometer.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3


High Fe and Cu in Amsoil UOAs is well documented, and happens just as often with their 15w-40 products as it does with lighter grades.


That's just not true. It's true in certain engines and situations - with some synthetic oils there will be elevated Cu. For Fe, the statement doesn't play any better than M1 shows high Fe in gasoline engines.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: dnewton3


High Fe and Cu in Amsoil UOAs is well documented, and happens just as often with their 15w-40 products as it does with lighter grades.


That's just not true. It's true in certain engines and situations - with some synthetic oils there will be elevated Cu. For Fe, the statement doesn't play any better than M1 shows high Fe in gasoline engines.


What's "not true" about the high Fe and Cu in Amsoil UOAs?

When I say "well documented", I'm talking about UOAs with ppm counts for Fe and/or Cu that exceed the typical (commonly called universal) averages. You simply cannot say that there are not UOAs out there that do not support this fact. My statement is truthful when read without bias.
"High Fe and Cu in Amsoil UOAs is well documented ..."
How's that not true?

Here's a small sample with different engines and circumstances, but the commonality is Amsoil brand lubes of different grades:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1879756&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2097286&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1845093&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2045614&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1977069&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1781345&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1621783&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1493145&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1399743&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1500553&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1252169&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1392423#Post1392423


I never said it happens in all Amsoil UOAs. There are many Amsoil UOAs where this phenomenon does not occur. I also certainly stated it happens with other brands. But CLEARLY we can see that it's "well documented" that Amsoil UOAs can at times, present proof that "high" Cu and/or Fe exist on a "per mile" basis when viewed against universal averages.

I've seen many Amsoil UOAs that were outstanding, and very impressive. They typically are from people who are dedicated to UOAs and not the odometer. They typically are from people who use Amsoil religiously, with a good understanding of the phenomenons associated with it's use.

To be honest, I really don't even understand the dichotomy of your statement:
"That's just not true. It's true in certain engines and situations ..."
What the heck does that mean, Pablo? It's not true, but it's true ...? That's about as contradictory as one can be in one's own statements, with two sentences back-to-back.

Let's let people read the UOAs and make up their own minds.

I was merely trying to point out that the post from LouieLouie was implying that a lighter grade oil was the cause of the high Cu and Fe, and it's MUCH more likely that the cause is the Amsoil chemistry. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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Statistically speaking Amsoil does not produce above average Fe in UOA's.

Quote:
4 years, 3479 miles on oil, 32,900 miles on truck.
Iron 9


If you want to call 9ppm in oil in an engine for 4 years, be my guest.
 
I wasn't talking about "ppm/year". I could not care less about the calendar in that regard. Is that how you define "wear"; by an annual chronograph?

I was talking about ppm/ mile. The Blackstone "universal average" for the Dmax (the truck in that UOA of which you take issue) is 12ppm in 6.6k miles = 1.8ppm / 1k miles.
I will call 9ppm in 3.5k miles "over the universal average". Because, at 2.6ppm/1k miles, it is.

When I run the statistical analysis, looking at only Amsoil UOAs in diesels, I see that they fall outside of the 3rd order standard deviation in UOAs when viewing these "high" numbers, contrasted to the non-Amoil UOAs.

I listed that UOA among the other 11 because it does indeed meet the criteria for high Fe wear on a "per mile" basis.

When I went back to grab those UOAs, I did see some nice Amsoil UOAs, but there were also plenty that were "high" in Fe and Cu. I listed 12 threads going back a couple of years, and those 12 were found among 18 with Amsoil. (It is admittedly a bit hard to tell from the title of the threads because some people do not put all the info into the title bar, but I tried to be as dilligent and fair as I could in the time I had). So, 12 of the 18 threads I located has high Fe and/or Cu. That's 2/3 of the UOAs here going back two years with Amsoil showing elevated metals above the universal average.

It that's not "well documented" then I guess I don't know what is ...
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I wasn't talking about "ppm/year". I could not care less about the calendar in that regard. Is that how you define "wear"; by an annual chronograph?


I think long ago we at BITOG established UOA #'s do not equal wear. Yes TIME does count. It cannot be ignored. Saying any oil in an iron alloy based engine with 9 PPM of Fe after 4 full years is "over the universal average" and using a compilation of such UOA's in a grand mean for further comparisons is misuse of statistical analysis.

I also think we can agree that somehow oils that have some level of ester in diesel/HDEO formulation used in diesels have a tendency to show what we call elevated copper. I have explained my thoughts on this mechanism is previous posts.
 
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