Amsoil 0W-30, 14,198 MILES, 1993 Civic

[cptbarkey]

Come on guys, it was right on time for the annual shart. Its fine for another year.

 

[malibuguy79]

Start reading this thread yesterday...then this pops up today...

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[Revving2Redline]

I wonder if the iron is high due to many WOT runs

possibly, could be something of that sort. On my cars I see 1ppm or less per 1k but if it goes really high you might have a issue. I did a 15 or 20k cvt fluid analysis using Redline Non Slip and had less than the one ppm. The oil analysis guy at Hotshots was really stunned. Currently at 330k miles on original motor and transmission

 

[ltslimjim]

So, this is now 31k miles on the replacement engine.

Ever since swapping engines, if you notice the Si readings are much higher.

There seems to be a likely unfiltered air leak somewhere which correlates with higher Iron numbers.

Reading back, you used an aFe Pro Dry S air filter on the now retired engine. Could it be an air filter difference as well? Though, I would be surprised at a Wix air filter issue just commenting on the difference; since air filtration; or a lack thereof, seem to be an issue. This isn’t a rebuilt engine with sealant washing out. Address the possibly ingress of Si and monitor for changes

 

[Graham Piccinini]

So, this is 31k miles on the replacement engine. Ever since swapping engines, if you notice the Si readings are much higher. There seems to be a likely unfiltered air leak somewhere which correlates with higher Iron numbers.

That's what I'm thinking too @harry j

 

[Revving2Redline]

View attachment 98624
Why not start with something simpler like a really nice quality magnetic oil drain bolt first. I have this one of my Aluminum Mazda engine and it still manages to catch what I would consider as a good amount of metallic sludge every time I remove it.

You can find them cheaper, this is just an example I quickly googled. Knockoffs go for $5-6.

I always buy the GReddy m14x1.5 that fits Honda Drain plug.

 

[twX]

So, this is now 31k miles on the replacement engine.

Ever since swapping engines, if you notice the Si readings are much higher.

There seems to be a likely unfiltered air leak somewhere which correlates with higher Iron numbers.

Reading back, you used an aFe Pro Dry S air filter on the now retired engine. Could it be an air filter difference as well? Though, I would be surprised at a Wix air filter issue just commenting on the difference; since air filtration; or a lack thereof, seem to be an issue. This isn’t a rebuilt engine with sealant washing out. Address the possibly ingress of Si and monitor for changes

The silicon is trending down like you would expect from sealant. It's common to remove a valve cover or oil pan to check things out, or to change the timing belt before dropping in a used engine.

The iron and particle counts were normal on the previous three UOAs despite silicon being even higher, so I don't think dust is causing the wear.

I wonder if the iron is high due to many WOT runs

Regular WOT pulls shouldn't increase iron that much in a healthy engine. Most iron comes from the cams, tappets, chains, gears, oil pump, etc, which tend to wear at a very steady rate and aren't very sensitive to hard driving.

Piston ring and liner wear increases a lot with engine load, but if it increases enough to triple the amount of iron in the oil, that would be a very excessive amount of wear. Regardless of where the iron is coming from, the engine has a problem.

 

[ltslimjim]

The silicon is trending down like you would expect from sealant. It's common to remove a valve cover or oil pan to check things out, or to change the timing belt before dropping in a used engine.

The iron and particle counts were normal on the previous three UOAs despite silicon being even higher, so I don't think dust is causing the wear.


Regular WOT pulls shouldn't increase iron that much in a healthy engine. Most iron comes from the cams, tappets, chains, gears, oil pump, etc, which tend to wear at a very steady rate and aren't very sensitive to hard driving.

Piston ring and liner wear increases a lot with engine load, but if it increases enough to triple the amount of iron in the oil, that would be a very excessive amount of wear. Regardless of where the iron is coming from, the engine has a problem.

Good points regarding the possible recent use of sealants. Just wanting to confirm with OP what happened prior to engine swap on the current engine; if they are aware.

Wondering if the blip in Fe could even be from the engine having sat and perhaps some corrosion developed in the piston ring area if it sat a long time and this is just a small blip that may come back down (if not from particle streak)

 

[harry j]

Good points regarding the possible recent use of sealants. Just wanting to confirm with OP what happened prior to engine swap on the current engine; if they are aware.

Wondering if the blip in Fe could even be from the engine having sat and perhaps some corrosion developed in the piston ring area if it sat a long time and this is just a small blip that may come back down (if not from particle streak)

 

[harry j]

I had to reseal the oil pan after the rear main seal went bad.

 

[harry j]

Your particle counts went up by 9 to 10 ISO codes for particles between 4 and 14 microns. That's around 1,000 times more particles than your previous runs.

The high particle count might be due to advanced wear or really poor oil filtration. If it were from dust, I think the silicon would be higher.

Is the Liquimoly you used the stuff with MOS2? It's not very soluble, so maybe it would be picked up as particles in that test. You could try asking the lab or Liquimoly.

I am thinking that there was an oil filter problem. Look at past reports. the insolubles were a .3, just what does that mean?
how can the oil be so dirty and the insolubles so low?

 

[harry j]

twX, the Liquimoly I use is a moly infused preparation and I have wondered on more than one occasion if that showed up in the UOA
as particles.

 

[ltslimjim]

twX, the Liquimoly I use is a moly infused preparation and I have wondered on more than one occasion if that showed up in the UOA
as particles.

I have wondered why you use the MoS2 while using Amsoil’s SS formulation. It’s possible the final blended product performs worse in one area or another by adding MoS2, but I’m not educated enough to know the specific difference. Only that it’s possible. I don’t see the harm in not adding it for a couple intervals, but since you got such a long life out of the previous engine I can understand keeping things the same. Have you always used the Moly additive with the Amsoil?

.02

 

[twX]

I am thinking that there was an oil filter problem. Look at past reports. the insolubles were a .3, just what does that mean?
how can the oil be so dirty and the insolubles so low?

The particles in the particle count only make up a tiny fraction of the total insolubles. The vast majority of insolubles are sub-micron in size and un-filterable. Despite what Blackstone says, the insolubles measurement does not correlate well with oil filtration.

The 4-14 micron particles that are really high in the particle count should get filtered pretty quickly by an efficient filter like the Amsoil, so either your engine is producing particles at a very high rate, the filter is clogged or otherwise not performing, or both.

It could be that something is causing high wear and the excessive wear metals clogged the filter. It could also be that the MOS2 clogged the filter. Liquimoly claims that most of the MOS2 particles are <0.3 micron, but if enough of them are larger than 1 micron, it could be that a oil filter like the Amsoil is efficient enough for small particle sizes that it quickly clogged. The particle counts on your previous runs with MOS2 were good, and MOS2 clogging filters doesn't seem to be a common issue, but maybe your last bottle of it was a bad batch or something. I'd leave out the MOS2 for now.

If you still have the oil filter, I'd cut it open. If the iron is caused by advanced wear, you might find a lot of metal sparklies. You might not be able to tell if the filter is clogged, but you might notice an obvious defect.

 

[harry j]

I have wondered why you use the MoS2 while using Amsoil’s SS formulation. It’s possible the final blended product performs worse in one area or another by adding MoS2, but I’m not educated enough to know the specific difference. Only that it’s possible. I don’t see the harm in not adding it for a couple intervals, but since you got such a long life out of the previous engine I can understand keeping things the same. Have you always used the Moly additive with the Amsoil?

.02

I started using the Liquimoly when I found out the the Amsoil 0W-30 oil already had some moly in it. I wanted to protect the engine at startup . During WW11, the fighter planes added moly to their engine oil in case of oil pressure loss, sounded good to me.

 

[burbguy82]

side view

View attachment 5922

nice car

 

[harry j]

The particles in the particle count only make up a tiny fraction of the total insolubles. The vast majority of insolubles are sub-micron in size and un-filterable. Despite what Blackstone says, the insolubles measurement does not correlate well with oil filtration.

The 4-14 micron particles that are really high in the particle count should get filtered pretty quickly by an efficient filter like the Amsoil, so either your engine is producing particles at a very high rate, the filter is clogged or otherwise not performing, or both.

It could be that something is causing high wear and the excessive wear metals clogged the filter. It could also be that the MOS2 clogged the filter. Liquimoly claims that most of the MOS2 particles are <0.3 micron, but if enough of them are larger than 1 micron, it could be that a oil filter like the Amsoil is efficient enough for small particle sizes that it quickly clogged. The particle counts on your previous runs with MOS2 were good, and MOS2 clogging filters doesn't seem to be a common issue, but maybe your last bottle of it was a bad batch or something. I'd leave out the MOS2 for now.

If you still have the oil filter, I'd cut it open. If the iron is caused by advanced wear, you might find a lot of metal sparklies. You might not be able to tell if the filter is clogged, but you might notice an obvious defect.

this happened to me once before, the particle counts were way high, the filter was to blame I think, perhaps the bypass valve was stuck open, The engine ran fine, no oil light on. the filter is long gone, if it happens again, I will save the filter and may-by send it to Amsoil for inspection

 

[Thebigm]

Miles on Civic- 524,636
Miles on oil - 14,198
Amsoil 0W-30 AZO
Amsoil EAo36 oil filter
Twin Filtermag CT3.2 magnetic oil filters
Dimple magnetic oil drain plug
5 ozs Liquimoly
47 ozs make up oil

Blackstone Labs; We're still tracking the possibility of a coolant leak for your Civic, and the increase in Potassium suggests it's
getting worse. Sodium hasn't increased much, but you'll want to keep and eye out on your end in case the coolant
level is getting low on you. Copper increased enough to mark too, but 6 ppm isn't really a lot of brass/bronze wear in the
grand scheme of things, so that's just to watch now too. The TBN came back OK at 2.6, and the PCread
17/16/14. WEsuggest cutting back to 10kK miles again because of the

Code
[/code]

Aluminum----------------4-------------------------------------------------4 universal average based on a 3,600 mile OCI

Chromium----------------1-------------------------------------------------1

Iron-------------------------20------------------------------------------------9

Copper--------------------6--------------------------------------------------3

Lead------------------------3-------------------------------------------------2

Tin--------------------------0--------------------------------------------------1

Molybdenum-------------325-----------------------------------------------85

Nickel-----------------------0--------------------------------------------------0

Manganese----------------0--------------------------------------------------0

Silver------------------------0--------------------------------------------------0

Titanium--------------------0--------------------------------------------------1

Potassium-----------------90-------------------------------------------------4

Boron------------------------40------------------------------------------------50

Silicon------------------------19-----------------------------------------------11

Sodium-----------------------22-----------------------------------------------43

Calcium----------------------1248---------------------------------------------2135

Magnesium------------------750-----------------------------------------------151

Phosphorus-----------------784-----------------------------------------------713

Zinc----------------------------823-----------------------------------------------833

Barium------------------------0---------------------------------------------------0

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F--------------------------66.7---------------------------------------------------57-67 (value should be)
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C----------------------------12.06--------------------------------------------------9.4-12.4
Flashpoint in F---------------------------------------390---------------------------------------------------->385
Fuel%--------------------------------------------------- Antifreeze %--------------------------------------------POS-------------------------------------------------0.0
Water %--------------------------------------------------0.0--------------------------------------------------- Insolubles %--------------------------------------------0.3---------------------------------------------------- TBN-------------------------------------------------------2.6---------------------------------------------------->1.0

Particle counts for ISO oil cleanliness code 17/16/14;

>= 2 microns---1,818 particles
>= 5---------------673
>= 10-------------186
>= 15-------------72
>=25--------------17
>=50--------------1
>=100------------0

That's a lot of makeup. Oil; almost an extra oil change

 

[harry j]

That's a lot of makeup. Oil; almost an extra oil change

yes, it used a lot of oil, part of the reason I went with the spare engine. The spare engine doesn't burn any oil.

 

[harry j]

So, this is now 31k miles on the replacement engine.

Ever since swapping engines, if you notice the Si readings are much higher.

There seems to be a likely unfiltered air leak somewhere which correlates with higher Iron numbers.

Reading back, you used an aFe Pro Dry S air filter on the now retired engine. Could it be an air filter difference as well? Though, I would be surprised at a Wix air filter issue just commenting on the difference; since air filtration; or a lack thereof, seem to be an issue. This isn’t a rebuilt engine with sealant washing out. Address the possibly ingress of Si and monitor for changes

I went over the air intake system and found a hose that was loose