ALL DOG OWNERS ~ PET FOOD INFO ~ MUST READ!

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I can't understand the aversion to grains in dog food in this web site. I once dated a veterinarian who pointed out that dogs require more grain in their diet than humans. Dog foods are marketed as "beef flavored" or "meaty flavored" to appease humans, since after all, it is humans that buy the food and not dogs. The food is otherwise made up of grain for the dog's health.

I think your friend was mistaken....

I think my friend was mistaken as well. I've been looking for verification, and all I can find is the opposite of what she said.

 

[CourierDriver]

www.dogfoodadvisor.com/frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

So, I go over and read the labels on our Pedigree dog food bag and it meets the AAFCO Nutrient Profiles. Then on the bag it reads rec-commended by Top Breeders and Veterinarians . So Pedigree got only one star in the dog-food chart listing?? Whats up with that?

Now I'm begging to question the that API sticker on oil bottles, you know you can print anything on a sticker.hmmmmm

 

[zerosoma]

it's amazing the [censored] they put in foods.

We've had an uphill battle (my wife and I) since we got married because her cat developed a UTI and gets them frequently. We were feeding them high quality Innova and Taste Of The Wild and so we had to take him and our other two off that for awhile and downgraded to Science Diet and Royal Canin. Boy did we ever see a change. Their fur became rough and tangled, and they had almost no energy.

We started them on Eukanuba UTI dry and it helped a little bit but it would have slowly killed us financially since it was $40/bag for the stuff.

We finally decided to feed ONLY wet and now we mix Innova with Friskies Special UTI Diet and they are back to their soft, playful selves.

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: Robynson
Our ten month old beagle had been getting allergic reactions. The vet said its due to some poultry thing in his diet. We had been feeding him TOTW but now trying a hypoallergenic brand and yes he is responding well to it. Yet to see vet one more time though.
..

Hmmm.. Beagles are usually low maintenance dogs. Ours just turned 8. Is he a 'hunting' Beagle or a 'petshop' beagle?

 

[Racerjk]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Originally Posted By: daman
Would the "Blue Buffalo Wilderness" be the same as the "blue wilderness" on the list of 5 star?

Yes. They're the same.

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm sorry, but this information is somehow incomplete. And, while it's true that the Chinese have poisoned our animals, it's NOT TRUE that your dog will suffer a shorter or less healthy life with conventional, high quality, store bought dog food.

Your experience is definitely an anomaly. All of my dogs have been healthier on higher quality food after getting them off the Science Diet junk that the shelter fed them.

Purina is not high quality. The Purina One Beyond is decent, but all of their food is heavy on fillers.


We fed our Corgi Science Diet for the first two years or so of his life. He got to where he wouldn't eat it at all so we switched to Blue Buffalo. I hate that we fed him that mess for so long!!! I had no idea how bad Science Diet really is until I started reading up on it.

We also give Chevy the Blue Wilderness treats. He absolutely devours the things. He goes crazy when you get the package out!

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
The diamond naturals had a 4 star review. thats what i have been buying.


Diamond naturals is good food. Chicken Soup for the Soul is too, that is made by Diamond as well.

 

[CourierDriver]

If you dog, cat, makes it 12 years, then that is very good. I know small dogs live maybe 16 years, but hey, 12 years is about it overall...............

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I can't understand the aversion to grains in dog food in this web site. I once dated a veterinarian who pointed out that dogs require more grain in their diet than humans. Dog foods are marketed as "beef flavored" or "meaty flavored" to appease humans, since after all, it is humans that buy the food and not dogs. The food is otherwise made up of grain for the dog's health.

I think your friend was mistaken. A dog digestive system is very similar to a wolf digestive system, which of course is where dogs come from. Wolves do not eat grains. Their diet is almost exclusively meat, although they do sometimes enjoy a vegetable, and if they get really hungry they will sometimes eat nuts or berries. Dogs and wolves both eat grass sometimes, but that's mostly for the fiber, and they stick to the top of the grass blades which is the most nutritious and hydrated, but it's not much for them. Their systems don't deal well with grains, they don't process them like we humans do. Dogs are not omnivores, they are carnivores. Corn and wheat would never be found in a wolf or feral dog diet, unless the animal were starving to death, even then many probably would not eat it.

Corn is especially bad for a dog, it's broken down into several chemicals in a dog's body that block serotonin. On top of that, the corn does not having any l-tryptophan, which is what is used to make serotonin in we mammals. Want to deplete your brain of serotonin? Eat only corn based products for a few weeks. This is why it's bad for your dog, he or she eats the same stuff day after day. If it's mostly corn, this can have all kinds of adverse behavioral effects on your pup. Wheat is a significant allergen to many dogs, sometimes it manifests in ways that are not obvious to the owner. Dogs can't say "Hey, my joins feel inflamed ever since you started me on that new food. And I have this strange full feeling all the time. You better check my intestines for inflammation."


I am afraid you are very mistaken and you sound very much like a dog food salesman. Dogs have evolved from Wolves over the last 14,000 years and living with us and getting our scraps has changed their digestive system and has changed them. One of my Petey's favorite meals is oatmeal, blueberries, natural peanut nutter, with a hard boiled egg.

Another thing there is only two kibbles that my Pit-mix will eat and will rather go hungry than eat other brands. That is ol roy and puppy chow.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I can't understand the aversion to grains in dog food in this web site. I once dated a veterinarian who pointed out that dogs require more grain in their diet than humans. Dog foods are marketed as "beef flavored" or "meaty flavored" to appease humans, since after all, it is humans that buy the food and not dogs. The food is otherwise made up of grain for the dog's health.

I think your friend was mistaken. A dog digestive system is very similar to a wolf digestive system, which of course is where dogs come from. Wolves do not eat grains. Their diet is almost exclusively meat, although they do sometimes enjoy a vegetable, and if they get really hungry they will sometimes eat nuts or berries. Dogs and wolves both eat grass sometimes, but that's mostly for the fiber, and they stick to the top of the grass blades which is the most nutritious and hydrated, but it's not much for them. Their systems don't deal well with grains, they don't process them like we humans do. Dogs are not omnivores, they are carnivores. Corn and wheat would never be found in a wolf or feral dog diet, unless the animal were starving to death, even then many probably would not eat it.

Corn is especially bad for a dog, it's broken down into several chemicals in a dog's body that block serotonin. On top of that, the corn does not having any l-tryptophan, which is what is used to make serotonin in we mammals. Want to deplete your brain of serotonin? Eat only corn based products for a few weeks. This is why it's bad for your dog, he or she eats the same stuff day after day. If it's mostly corn, this can have all kinds of adverse behavioral effects on your pup. Wheat is a significant allergen to many dogs, sometimes it manifests in ways that are not obvious to the owner. Dogs can't say "Hey, my joins feel inflamed ever since you started me on that new food. And I have this strange full feeling all the time. You better check my intestines for inflammation."


I am afraid you are very mistaken and you sound very much like a dog food salesman. Dogs have evolved from Wolves over the last 14,000 years and living with us and getting our scraps has changed their digestive system and has changed them. One of my Petey's favorite meals is oatmeal, blueberries, natural peanut nutter, with a hard boiled egg.

Another thing there is only two kibbles that my Pit-mix will eat and will rather go hungry than eat other brands. That is ol roy and puppy chow.

What your dog chooses to eat or not is not indicative of what is good for him/her. Neither is your claim about 14,000 year of supposed evolution. (Evolutionary changes to a digestive system would take longer than that). Dogs CAN and DO eat grains and other non-essential fillers and such in dog foods. Especially lower quality ones. Some dogs will even seem to prosper on it. But ideally, and shown in authoritative research, canines need and survive with a healthier diet based less on grains, fillers, and by-products. But of course, with a little knowledge and research a person could feed their dog foods similar to what you've expressed (with many other foods included) and the pet would likely do well.
I have had dogs my entire life (means nothing really) and in that time I have found that a very healthy diet based on natural ingredients more commonly found in the wild, truly has a positive effect on my dogs. I am not a dog food salesman either.

 

[Bandito440]

That poor dog. Ol Roy is awful. The cheapest corn fines and soy that wasn't fit for human consumption mixed with meat and bone meal of unknown origin. Just because spoiled kids want McDonalds filler burgers for every meal doesn't mean they should have them.

My dogs are part of the family and I treat them that way. I don't eat Chef Boyardee, put junk gas station oil in my vehicles, or feed the dogs trash food.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
That poor dog. Ol Roy is awful. The cheapest corn fines and soy that wasn't fit for human consumption mixed with meat and bone meal of unknown origin. Just because spoiled kids want McDonalds filler burgers for every meal doesn't mean they should have them.

My dogs are part of the family and I treat them that way. I don't eat Chef Boyardee, put junk gas station oil in my vehicles, or feed the dogs trash food.

Good points.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I can't understand the aversion to grains in dog food in this web site. I once dated a veterinarian who pointed out that dogs require more grain in their diet than humans. Dog foods are marketed as "beef flavored" or "meaty flavored" to appease humans, since after all, it is humans that buy the food and not dogs. The food is otherwise made up of grain for the dog's health.

I think your friend was mistaken. A dog digestive system is very similar to a wolf digestive system, which of course is where dogs come from. Wolves do not eat grains. Their diet is almost exclusively meat, although they do sometimes enjoy a vegetable, and if they get really hungry they will sometimes eat nuts or berries. Dogs and wolves both eat grass sometimes, but that's mostly for the fiber, and they stick to the top of the grass blades which is the most nutritious and hydrated, but it's not much for them. Their systems don't deal well with grains, they don't process them like we humans do. Dogs are not omnivores, they are carnivores. Corn and wheat would never be found in a wolf or feral dog diet, unless the animal were starving to death, even then many probably would not eat it.

Corn is especially bad for a dog, it's broken down into several chemicals in a dog's body that block serotonin. On top of that, the corn does not having any l-tryptophan, which is what is used to make serotonin in we mammals. Want to deplete your brain of serotonin? Eat only corn based products for a few weeks. This is why it's bad for your dog, he or she eats the same stuff day after day. If it's mostly corn, this can have all kinds of adverse behavioral effects on your pup. Wheat is a significant allergen to many dogs, sometimes it manifests in ways that are not obvious to the owner. Dogs can't say "Hey, my joins feel inflamed ever since you started me on that new food. And I have this strange full feeling all the time. You better check my intestines for inflammation."


I am afraid you are very mistaken and you sound very much like a dog food salesman. Dogs have evolved from Wolves over the last 14,000 years and living with us and getting our scraps has changed their digestive system and has changed them. One of my Petey's favorite meals is oatmeal, blueberries, natural peanut nutter, with a hard boiled egg.

Another thing there is only two kibbles that my Pit-mix will eat and will rather go hungry than eat other brands. That is ol roy and puppy chow.

What your dog chooses to eat or not is not indicative of what is good for him/her. Neither is your claim about 14,000 year of supposed evolution. (Evolutionary changes to a digestive system would take longer than that). Dogs CAN and DO eat grains and other non-essential fillers and such in dog foods. Especially lower quality ones. Some dogs will even seem to prosper on it. But ideally, and shown in authoritative research, canines need and survive with a healthier diet based less on grains, fillers, and by-products. But of course, with a little knowledge and research a person could feed their dog foods similar to what you've expressed (with many other foods included) and the pet would likely do well.
I have had dogs my entire life (means nothing really) and in that time I have found that a very healthy diet based on natural ingredients more commonly found in the wild, truly has a positive effect on my dogs. I am not a dog food salesman either.


I find that your opinion is the height of hubris especially on the continual insistence that dogs are wolves and using the word natural and dog in the same sentence is quite entertaining. The fact is dogs are human creations breed and selected for traits that our ancestors found desirable and that process is still happening today. Dogs are not natural and their sole purpose for existence is to serve us and because of this process their diet and needs have changed.

But you can continue to believe dogs are wolves. Also a lot of evolutionary changes can happen in a few generations especially when it comes to survival so over 14,000 years you should expect a lot to change also IMO.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
That poor dog. Ol Roy is awful. The cheapest corn fines and soy that wasn't fit for human consumption mixed with meat and bone meal of unknown origin. Just because spoiled kids want McDonalds filler burgers for every meal doesn't mean they should have them.

My dogs are part of the family and I treat them that way. I don't eat Chef Boyardee, put junk gas station oil in my vehicles, or feed the dogs trash food.


On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: dave1251

On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!


It's totally obvious when you research the origin of ingredients on AAFCO that they are not very kosher. "Meat and bone meal" is basically whatever is left of the animal that isn't fit for normal consumption - take a cow for instance - we're talking hooves, ground bones, and hyde. The same thing with any by-product. "Poultry By-Product Meal" contains talons, feathers, and beaks. There is no actual meat in there. So when you buy a product like "Ol Roy" or "Speical Kitty" you are getting corn fillers that are hard to digest, as well as bones, talons, feathers, beaks, skulls, marrow, etc etc. The proof in the pudding is always in the first five ingredients. Will your dog live to be 10? Perhaps. But he will not be happy or healthy or enriched.

I think what y'all are really trying to aregue is that you don't want to pay extra for "snobbish food" and that is fine. It is a free country and you can buy what you want for your pets or your kids. Truth of the matter is you can buy decent "middle of the road" food for not too much more. It's like deciding to buy Mobil Super 5k instead of the house brand. As I said "chicken soup for the dog lovers' soul" or "canidae" is not that expensive - probably $40 for a 40lb bag. At least try it to see if it's worth it. I found the truth out about this garbage that is allowed in pet foods and to be honest it makes me sick. But you have a choice. As a man in the pet shop said to me, regarding what pet food I should buy, "how much do you love your pet?" I asked him what he meant. "How much do you care for your pet? When you answer that I'll tell you what you are looking for."

 

[callbay]

Zerosoma,

Just a thought but my Mom used to feed her cats just wet food and by middle age their teeth were rotten. They need some dry to clean out the wet that gets caught between their teeth,

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: callbay
Zerosoma,

Just a thought but my Mom used to feed her cats just wet food and by middle age their teeth were rotten. They need some dry to clean out the wet that gets caught between their teeth,


Never heard of that before but I suppose it's plausible. Maybe we'll pick up a bag to feed once every couple weeks.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: callbay
Zerosoma,

Just a thought but my Mom used to feed her cats just wet food and by middle age their teeth were rotten. They need some dry to clean out the wet that gets caught between their teeth,


Yes, this is what our Vet told us as well. We feed our cats dry food and they have perfect teeth, my one cat is going to be 11 here shortly.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: dave1251

On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!


It's totally obvious when you research the origin of ingredients on AAFCO that they are not very kosher. "Meat and bone meal" is basically whatever is left of the animal that isn't fit for normal consumption - take a cow for instance - we're talking hooves, ground bones, and hyde. The same thing with any by-product. "Poultry By-Product Meal" contains talons, feathers, and beaks. There is no actual meat in there. So when you buy a product like "Ol Roy" or "Speical Kitty" you are getting corn fillers that are hard to digest, as well as bones, talons, feathers, beaks, skulls, marrow, etc etc. The proof in the pudding is always in the first five ingredients. Will your dog live to be 10? Perhaps. But he will not be happy or healthy or enriched.
;
I think what y'all are really trying to aregue is that you don't want to pay extra for "snobbish food" and that is fine. It is a free country and you can buy what you want for your pets or your kids. Truth of the matter is you can buy decent "middle of the road" food for not too much more. It's like deciding to buy Mobil Super 5k instead of the house brand. As I said "chicken soup for the dog lovers' soul" or "canidae" is not that expensive - probably $40 for a 40lb bag. At least try it to see if it's worth it. I found the truth out about this garbage that is allowed in pet foods and to be honest it makes me sick. But you have a choice. As a man in the pet shop said to me, regarding what pet food I should buy, "how much do you love your pet?" I asked him what he meant. "How much do you care for your pet? When you answer that I'll tell you what you are looking for."


Hey you are such a well rounded individual and know so much on a variety subjects you even know what I food I prepare for my family you should start your own consulting firm you can make a lot of money up there.

 

[Bandito440]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: dave1251

On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!


It's totally obvious when you research the origin of ingredients on AAFCO that they are not very kosher. "Meat and bone meal" is basically whatever is left of the animal that isn't fit for normal consumption - take a cow for instance - we're talking hooves, ground bones, and hyde. The same thing with any by-product. "Poultry By-Product Meal" contains talons, feathers, and beaks. There is no actual meat in there. So when you buy a product like "Ol Roy" or "Speical Kitty" you are getting corn fillers that are hard to digest, as well as bones, talons, feathers, beaks, skulls, marrow, etc etc. The proof in the pudding is always in the first five ingredients. Will your dog live to be 10? Perhaps. But he will not be happy or healthy or enriched.

I think what y'all are really trying to aregue is that you don't want to pay extra for "snobbish food" and that is fine. It is a free country and you can buy what you want for your pets or your kids. Truth of the matter is you can buy decent "middle of the road" food for not too much more. It's like deciding to buy Mobil Super 5k instead of the house brand. As I said "chicken soup for the dog lovers' soul" or "canidae" is not that expensive - probably $40 for a 40lb bag. At least try it to see if it's worth it. I found the truth out about this garbage that is allowed in pet foods and to be honest it makes me sick. But you have a choice. As a man in the pet shop said to me, regarding what pet food I should buy, "how much do you love your pet?" I asked him what he meant. "How much do you care for your pet? When you answer that I'll tell you what you are looking for."


Thanks for this response. I'm glad to see some other like-minded people out there.

I don't need to be a nutritionist to know that my family shouldn't eat Big Macs for every meal even if they want it, and I don't need to be a tribologist to know that the generic gas station motor oil is bad for my vehicle.

I'm no expert on any of the topics discussed here, but reading the label on Ol Roy and using the same good sense that leads me to the above conclusions, I came to the realization that feeding my pets corn fines and soy fillers mixed with some meat meal from unknown species and parts is not healthy.

The Tractor Supply house brand 4Health is made by Diamond and is pretty good quality, and I think about $37 for the big bag. It's good middle of the road food, is lacking a lot of the fillers and trash that Wal-Mart food has, and unless you're feeding a herd, it doesn't cost much more than the generic corn chunks.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: dave1251

On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!


It's totally obvious when you research the origin of ingredients on AAFCO that they are not very kosher. "Meat and bone meal" is basically whatever is left of the animal that isn't fit for normal consumption - take a cow for instance - we're talking hooves, ground bones, and hyde. The same thing with any by-product. "Poultry By-Product Meal" contains talons, feathers, and beaks. There is no actual meat in there. So when you buy a product like "Ol Roy" or "Speical Kitty" you are getting corn fillers that are hard to digest, as well as bones, talons, feathers, beaks, skulls, marrow, etc etc. The proof in the pudding is always in the first five ingredients. Will your dog live to be 10? Perhaps. But he will not be happy or healthy or enriched.

I think what y'all are really trying to aregue is that you don't want to pay extra for "snobbish food" and that is fine. It is a free country and you can buy what you want for your pets or your kids. Truth of the matter is you can buy decent "middle of the road" food for not too much more. It's like deciding to buy Mobil Super 5k instead of the house brand. As I said "chicken soup for the dog lovers' soul" or "canidae" is not that expensive - probably $40 for a 40lb bag. At least try it to see if it's worth it. I found the truth out about this garbage that is allowed in pet foods and to be honest it makes me sick. But you have a choice. As a man in the pet shop said to me, regarding what pet food I should buy, "how much do you love your pet?" I asked him what he meant. "How much do you care for your pet? When you answer that I'll tell you what you are looking for."


Thanks for this response. I'm glad to see some other like-minded people out there.

I don't need to be a nutritionist to know that my family shouldn't eat Big Macs for every meal even if they want it, and I don't need to be a tribologist to know that the generic gas station motor oil is bad for my vehicle.

I'm no expert on any of the topics discussed here, but reading the label on Ol Roy and using the same good sense that leads me to the above conclusions, I came to the realization that feeding my pets corn fines and soy fillers mixed with some meat meal from unknown species and parts is not healthy.

The Tractor Supply house brand 4Health is made by Diamond and is pretty good quality, and I think about $37 for the big bag. It's good middle of the road food, is lacking a lot of the fillers and trash that Wal-Mart food has, and unless you're feeding a herd, it doesn't cost much more than the generic corn chunks.


The best part of this conversation is that you are jumping to conclusions without half of the available information. Do you know how much kibble my dog gets in a month? How are you making the that your brand of dog food is somehow superior? By reading a label or a company's website? A good salesman will make any product look superior and feed off of a consumers fear that the products being used is somehow inferior. Also do you know where a "gas station" oil is blended at? There is only a few companies in North America you can buy base stocks and additive packages from if you are using a API certified oil of course.