Adding Mos2 in a BMW N54 engine with DI?

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The soluble molys are what's wanted, and M1 has it. That being said, when it comes to heat and pressure, the soluble moly becomes MolyDisulfide.

I've never heard that before - more like the soluble moly and MoS2 were relatively different substances that just happen to share the same name. Please shed some more light on this.

 

[Mystic]

Few people really have any idea what actually goes on in a new car dealership. And what service managers and mechanics have to go through.

Everybody should be aware that GM recently had to recall millions of vehicles. The CEOs of GM and the big shot engineers knew about the problems long ago, because people came forward to talk about the defects. Some of those people who came forward may have lost their jobs. Now GM is paying out a lot of money and if the problems would have been corrected earlier they would probably be paying out a lot less.

Let me tell you something d00df00d that is not in the book. A good service manager is going to make sure that defective parts are 'assisted' in going out of service quickly so that those parts can be replaced by newly designed parts that correct for the problems of the earlier parts. Because the high placed, big shot engineers who designed the defective parts are never going to admit to their mistakes. And if somebody points out the mistakes they can lose their jobs. It is a lot better for the defective parts to be replaced soon rather than somebody being killed in a car accident. But all of that is not in the book. But it is common sense.

I would be quite willing to try LM moly and I may order some from my local NAPA Store.

 

[gman2304]

One could easily replace the 'GM' with most any automobile manufacturers name plate in the last decade! Other companies have tried to hide known defects as well. I own an 06 Toyota Avalon and have had at least 3 recalls and a VVT oil line failure which Toyota fixed free but has never issued a recall for. A friend of mine had the same vvt failure and Toyota fixed hers free as well after she told the same dealer they had fixed mine free. I wonder how many people had theirs fixed out of pocket. IIRC several people died from the Toyota floor mat issue, causing sudden and uncontrollable acceleration. The remedy for my cars floor mat issue was for the dealers tech to cut off about 1 inch of the pedal so it wouldn't snag the floor mat. I read last week Hyundai was recalling a huge number of cars for........well, you know. It isn't just GM. Did I mention the Ford Pinto of 1973...with the Firestone tires...? I use mos2 as well.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The soluble molys are what's wanted, and M1 has it. That being said, when it comes to heat and pressure, the soluble moly becomes MolyDisulfide.

I've never heard that before - more like the soluble moly and MoS2 were relatively different substances that just happen to share the same name. Please shed some more light on this.



molybdenum difulfide presentation

See specifically slides 28 and on.

There are two types of moly:

1.) a colloidal suspension of MoS2 powders in a carrier, usually used in grease formulations,

2.) solube moly or MoDTC and MoDTP. The MoDTC is the most used soluble moly in PCMO formulations with MoDTP used in gear lube formulations.

MoDTC is already a component in the PI package in most PCMOs these days.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The soluble molys are what's wanted, and M1 has it. That being said, when it comes to heat and pressure, the soluble moly becomes MolyDisulfide.

I've never heard that before - more like the soluble moly and MoS2 were relatively different substances that just happen to share the same name. Please shed some more light on this.


We kicked the can around here

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Good to know. Just to clarify [for me] you mentioned you add a "(little)", "pre-conditioner." Would that be Mos2? If so how much to a 5 qt. sump? Thanks!!


A bottle does me 12.5 litres of oil.
Half in the Nissan (7 litres), half in the Caprice (5 litres), then what's left in the tin gets the mower's oil mixeed in with it, shook up, into the mower...the mismatch in halves is that I don't drain the bottle, just pour quickly...leaving a goodly amount in the bottle after the Caprice.

 

[Alext]

I knew I came to the right place here to ask. Was wondering if it was a stupid question or not and was hesitating to post. Glad I did.

Going to add about half a bottle into the sump tomorrow.

Interesting to note that at around 120oC (my oil usually stays around this temp) that 200ppm of MOS2 provides a better friction coefficient than 75ppm.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Good to know. Just to clarify [for me] you mentioned you add a "(little)", "pre-conditioner." Would that be Mos2? If so how much to a 5 qt. sump? Thanks!!


A bottle does me 12.5 litres of oil.
Half in the Nissan (7 litres), half in the Caprice (5 litres), then what's left in the tin gets the mower's oil mixeed in with it, shook up, into the mower...the mismatch in halves is that I don't drain the bottle, just pour quickly...leaving a goodly amount in the bottle after the Caprice.


Thank you! I used it in a similar fashion. It has stopped an old mower from blowing oil after it starts for quite a few years now.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Alext
I knew I came to the right place here to ask. Was wondering if it was a stupid question or not and was hesitating to post. Glad I did.

Going to add about half a bottle into the sump tomorrow.

Interesting to note that at around 120oC (my oil usually stays around this temp) that 200ppm of MOS2 provides a better friction coefficient than 75ppm.


I don't think its going to bother it but my question is why does the company thats makes it (LM) not use it in their own high end synthetic oil?
In fact only one 10w40 uses it. Some others use what they call molygen which is not MoS2.
They did use it in every oil at one time years ago, i know i used it. Fair question don't you think?

Is 200 ppm MoS2 as beneficial as 75ppm Trinuclear moly?
No hate for the product i used for years but i question what if anything is the benefit to an oil like Mobil 1 other than making it easier to see on the dipstick.
My other big concern is fall out. My cars are off the road 6 mo out of the year either in summer or winter. On one of them i needed to swap the oil pan and found what suspiciously looked like a lot of MoS2 on the bottom.
I had been using LM a few times over the course of 3 years.

 

[Mystic]

If MoS2 is raining out of the oil when the oil sits for a long time in an unused car I would not use the stuff. Thank you Trav for your usual quality observations. It is so nice having a professional mechanic at this website. Somebody who can bring order and sanity.

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: Trav

I don't think its going to bother it but my question is why does the company thats makes it (LM) not use it in their own high end synthetic oil?
In fact only one 10w40 uses it. Some others use what they call molygen which is not MoS2.
They did use it in every oil at one time years ago, i know i used it. Fair question don't you think?


Maybe manufacturers' specs don't allow solid lubricants in oil, so they can't use it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Trav
but my question is why does the company thats makes it (LM) not use it in their own high end synthetic oil?

What else apart from moly is in this additive? Anything that could possibly jeopardize the ability to have the oil API or ACEA approved?

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trav
but my question is why does the company thats makes it (LM MoS2 Anti Friction) not use it in their own high end synthetic oil?

What else apart from moly is in this additive? Anything that could possibly jeopardize the ability to have the oil API or ACEA approved?

No approval issues. If you look through Liqui-Moly's complete product line, they make several motor oils containing MoS2, for example Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti Friciton Motor Oil which is ACEA A3; ACEA B4; API SL; API CF approved. Liqui-Moly refers to this as "semi-synthetic."

As another user pointed out, some auto makers may not be happy with solids in the motor oil.

 

[Trav]

The 10w40 is the only one i can find.
If its not an approval problem and its as good and beneficial as its touted to be then why not have it in all their oils? I mean they produce both the oil and the additive.

 

[Alext]

I note the can of MOS2 does not say 'Shake Well' on it. LM must be confident that the MOS2 remains in suspension very well!

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Trav
The 10w40 is the only one i can find.
If its not an approval problem and its as good and beneficial as its touted to be then why not have it in all their oils? I mean they produce both the oil and the additive.


From the German website

- Mineral based oils:

- Super Motor Oil + MoS2 15w40

- MoS2 Low Friction 20w-50

- Super Low Friction Motor Oil MoS2 15W-50

Semi Synthetic:

- MoS2 Low-Friction SAE 10W-40

Although finding data (VOAs or other) to support this might be difficult, almost all of the Liqui-Moly oils probably contain some form of organic moly. About half of the synthetic oils tested by PQI contained significant amounts of moly, with Schaeffers Supreme leading the pack (by a large margin).

Here's another batch of tests of 5w-20 oils with Pennzoil and Chevron leading the moly race.

I could not find any VOAs of Liqui-Moly motor oils, maybe because they are not widely sold in the states. Some of the L-M motor oils mentioned above may not be available at all on this side of the pond.

 

[dave5358]

Originally Posted By: Alext
I note the can of MOS2 does not say 'Shake Well' on it. LM must be confident that the MOS2 remains in suspension very well!

Shake it well. After putting the contents into your engine, half fill the MoS2 can with whatever oil you're using. Shake again. Dump into engine. Repeat 2 or 3 more times. There's a lot of very dark gray moly inside the MoS2 container.

 

[Alext]

Thanks Dave - I decided to shake it really well. However I only put in 2/3 of the container as I thought I'd save some to try in another car. Warmed the oil up to about 70oC after a short run around the block. Put in the Mos2 and started up again.

The engine was immediately quieter on idle which I thought was strange as was not expecting it to make such a difference so quickly. On driving I have not noticed any significant difference to smoothness or oil temperature (at least none that my eyes and ears can detect).

On arriving back into the garage after a good drive, I confirmed that the engine was definitely quieter on tickover when fully warm. My N54 engine had a distinct idle noise that was easily heard in the garage once fully warm but now this has been minimised noticeably although is of course still present.

I am tempted to add the rest of the bottle in.

So far so good.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Alext
I note the can of MOS2 does not say 'Shake Well' on it. LM must be confident that the MOS2 remains in suspension very well!


Then undoubtedly this is a colloidal suspension of powdered MoS2 and not the soluble moly, which is molybdenum dithiocarbamate and which you don't have to shake.

 

[Trav]

I didn't even bother look at mineral oils and i can see that it might be of some benefit to them.
They do use it in one semi and not in any of their full synthetics. In their full synthetics they use a different moly called molygen not MoS2. Whats up with that?

Don't misunderstand me i am not calling it snake oil because it definitely isn't.
I just think its an old school additive that worked well with the oils of yesteryear and has no place in a fully formulated modern oil especially a full synthetic.

Course they is no competing with the butt dyno, the placebo effect or some slick advertizing like microscopic ball bearings in a can.
Yep that sounds good to me, i buy Mobil 1 0w40 and PU for my engines then i adulterate it with some solid lube the folK who make the stuff wont even use in their own top shelf oils but i allow them to convince me i need it.
I was born at night but not last night.