ACEA A3 oils in xW-30 weight?

[loubapache]

This may have something to do with HT/HS viscosity at 150 deg C. The A3 specs call for greater than 3.5.

In the API specs, x(x)W30 oils only need to have 2.9. Even 0W-40, 5W-40, and 10W-40 only need 2.9. Note that this is the minimum so some API oils may have higher HT/HS.

15W-40, 20W-40, 25W-40 require 3.7.

From product sheets, it appears that Amsoil 0W-30 and 5W-30 have HT/HS higher than 3.5.

Bo

[ June 11, 2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: loubapache ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'd posted the european specs in the interesting articles section so you can see how it relates to standard american oil classifications.

The schaeffers actually have in their tech data sheets these acea specs on their 15w40
ACEA E5-99, E3-96, B3-98, B4-98, A3-98

and on their 5w30 and 10w30 tech sheets both have
ACEA A1-98, A2-96 Issue 2, A3-96

Now these are not taking this as an asumption but actually are spec'd out for these standards.

[ June 11, 2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[Steve in SD]

I've noticed that Amsoil oil seems to meet the HT/HS viscosity at 150 deg C of 3.5, however, none of their xw-30 weight oils meet ACEA A3 either. The closest AMsoil does is in their series 2000 0w-30, which meets ACEA A2. I'm wondering if there are ANY in this weight besides schaeffers oil that makes it(in N. America). There seems to be plenty in Europe that do.

 

[Scott_in_WI]

Bob, you forgot to mention that Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 10W-30 and 5W-30 both meet the more stingent MB/DC 229.3 standard as well!

 

[Steve in SD]

Why is it that so few oils in this weight meet the ACEA a3 specs? Which oils in North America meet these specs? I know that Schaeffer's does, but are there any others?

 

[GW]

Below is a spec. sheet for Schaffer 5W30. It shows HTHS to be 3.0. Acea calls for a HTHS rate of >3.5 for both A2 & A3. Have a look also at the volatility rate of this oil - it exceeds ACEA's maximum allowable limit of 15% for A2 and 13% for A3. Despite this, Schaeffer does state that this oil "meets and exceeds" the A2-96 AND the A3-96 specifications - can anyone explain this to me?

Micron Moly® Engine Oil SAE 5W-30 meets and exceeds the following specifications and manufacturers’ requirements: MIL-46152E, CID A-A-52039B, API Service Classification SJ, Energy Conserving, ILSAC GF-1 & GF-2, Ford M2C153-G, General Motors 6094M and 4718M, ACEA A1-98, A2-96 Issue 2, A3-96; Daimler Chrysler 229.1, 229.3, MS6395F; JASO M328-95, M331-84, M336-93, Volkswagen 500.00, 501.01, 502.00

TYPICAL PROPERTIES

SAE Grade
5W-30

API Gravity 60°F
26.7

Specific Gravity 60°F
.849

Viscosity 40°C Cst (ASTM D-445)
61.6-62.0

Viscosity 100°C Cst (ASTM D-445)
10.4-10.5

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
159

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity

302°F/150°C cP (ASTM D-4683)
3.0

Cold Cranking Viscosity

@ -25°C, cP (ASTM D-5293)
1,748

@ -30° C, cP (ASTM D-5293)
6,200

Mini Rotary Viscosity – TP1 @ -30°C, cP (ASTM D-4683)
39,656

Scanning Brookfield Gelation Index

@-33°F/-36°C
5.8

Flash Point °F/°C (ASTM D-92)
400°/204.44°

Fire Point °F/°C (ASTM D-92)
430°/221.11°

Shear Stability (ASTM D-3945 Procedure A)

% Viscosity Loss
5

Volatility @ 700° (ASTM D-2887) %Evaporation Loss
15.9

NOACK Volatility (ASTM D-5800) % Evaporation Loss
18

[ June 12, 2002, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: GW ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'm trying to find where you find those specs.
The ones I have is...

A1 Oil intended for use in gasoline engines specifically designed to be capable of using low friction, low viscosity oils with a High Temperature / High Shear Rate Viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt.

A2 General purpose oil intended for use in most gasoline engines with normal drain intervals, although it may not be suitable for some high performance engines.

A3 Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and / or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and / or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.

A5.. Stable stay in grade oil intended for use at extended drain interbals in high performannce gasoline engines designed to be capable of using low friction, low viscosity oils with a HT/Hs of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.

 

[Steve in SD]

I don't know what are the ACEA specs for 1996, and maybe that's why even Schaeffers Micron Moly meets ACEA A3-96.

Here are the current specs for 2002. On their website, they also have specs for 1999, but I don't have the link handy.

http://www.acea.be/acea/oilsequences2002.pdf

(You need acrobat reader to open this)

 

[GW]

So why bother with a specification that is six years old? Is it not like saying this new oil meets and exceeds API SH specifications?

 

[GW]

Here is a link to a page which shows A2-96 and A3-98 specs. It would seem that Schaeffer clearly does not meet the A2-96 specifcations for HTHS and evaporative loss.

http://www.acea.be/acea/GasEng1.htm

What's going on here Bob?

"Now these are not taking this as an asumption but actually are spec'd out for these standards."

[ June 12, 2002, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: GW ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'm not the chemist nor the tech sheet writer. Given that, I will have to stand back and say I don't honestly know.

I never really looked at this and just used what they said on the techdata sheets.According to the information I showed(posted prev), the ht/hs was within limits. As for volititly,.. again,

There may be more to this than I or you may know about but at this time, you finally stumped me