A1/B1-A5/B5 "Low Vis" (vs) A3/B3-B4 LL01-MB 229.5

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Requirements for the low temperature viscosity of an oil is different between the Winter and the Summer in locations that actually have a Winter.

There are oils that can meet both low temp requirements.

The viscosity requirements at operating temperature is not affected much by season.

Some routinely used vehicles(travel routes) do not routinely reach full operating temperature in the Winter.

Someone that frequents this site and is as passionate as AJ could rationalize advantages of switching viscosity grades with season.

Others could rationally conclude that their situation (or AJs for that matter) does not warrant a special change of fluid for winter.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If you read his responses to other threads on similar subjects in the past, you will see that he advocates the use of thicker oils during summer and thinner oils during winter, regardless if it's free or not.

For me, this simply makes no sense, not to mention that it's impractical since I only do one oil change a year typically.


Take my wife's Astra. She drive 2 miles to work from a 0f to +10f cold start. Europe (where they KNOW how to do things) it specs 5w-40. Well, at the +100f to +150f her oil gets to, don't you think starting with 5w-20 makes more sense? Sorry, but I don't know of a more obvious example.

Typically, mfgs published visc guides in place of the single recommendation. These guides are dependent on AMBIENT temp. This one from Porsche is rather simple:

EuroK.gif



So, I don't really see what the argument is.

If the dealer used an oil I liked better then Syntec 5w-40, I'd use a similar oil for my inbetween changes.

As is, my dealer doesn't use M1 0w-40, GC or some cool Euro 5w-30, they have 5w-40...my summer oil change.

For the record, my oil stash puts most retailers to shame. I have more than enough different oils to do the job, I'm just doing it the best I can.

I went from FF to RP 15w-40 to QSS 10w-30 to Syntec 5w-40 to Edge 5w-30. I'm UOA testing the Edge to see if I will use it again next winter or not. I have other 5w-30 I want to try later, like SynPower, M1 HM, Ultra et al.

It makes perfect sense...to me.
 
The chart shown above illustrates the point of most of the participants in this thread - there are many oils, including a 5W40 that could be used year round. The charts do not suggest that we rotate between seasons. Instead they tend to exclude certain grades at temperature limits.

AJ- Are you actually arguing that if your routine driving doesn't allow the engine to fully warm, then your choice is to use a thinner oil in the winter. That argument appears to be a little different from advocating seasonal rotation for everyone. It is more like the Haas argument.
 
I'm just more willing to experiment than most here. I know the 5w-20 will work inthe Astra and the thin 5w-30 will work in the VW. The thing is, I'm choosing winter as the "safest" time to do this experiment, including the UOA test. If it's clean I'll do it again in winter and rethink how thick an oil I really need for summer.

Believe me, I'd use GC in summer if it was up to me, but I only have 10q. That's my oil for he next two Falls.
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
If we compare a correct 5w30 (504.00 would be used in the 2.0T, not ACEA A5) to M1 0w40, M1 0w40 is thinner at all temps below 20C.

Clipboard01.png



Interesting. I'd love to have this chart going down to -30C. I operate between -10C and -30C all winter.
 
I specifically did not go below 0C since that graph is not accurate much below that.

Me: How accurate is your visco calculator from -20C to 100C?

Widman: With most oils it should be accurate until you factor pour point modifiers

Me: Hm OK, how would a PP modifier affect the visco calculator results?

Widman: It flattens out the expected results at low temperatures.
 
Last edited:
Please stay on topic:

Re: A5 (vs) A3


Edge 5w-30 is a thinner oil than M1 0w-40, get over it.


Let me know when you find an A3 oil that's thinner than an A5.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Thanks AJ, got one with GC's, and BMW 5w-30 Synth specs?


I'm guessing they are pretty similar. GC should be the winner below -20c, but not by much.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

m10w-40.jpg



So you compare a thin 30 (Edge is 9.8 cSt at 100C, any thinner and it's a 20) that doesn't meet the specs for your application, to a 40? Wow, this is my surprised face.

BobFout's prior comparisons are more realistic for those that actually care about having an oil with sufficient kinematic viscosity once the engine is up to operating temp.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Please stay on topic:

Re: A5 (vs) A3


Edge 5w-30 is a thinner oil than M1 0w-40, get over it.


Let me know when you find an A3 oil that's thinner than an A5.


That's not the current discussion - but I guess that's what you do when you try to keep arguing out of a box. Change the box.

Edge 5W30 does not even come close to meeting the viscosity and HT/HS requirements for Volkswagen. It's at the bottom end of a 30. The few XW30 oils that meet the VW specs are all at the upper end of a 30, almost a 40.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Please stay on topic:

Let me know when you find an A3 oil that's thinner than an A5.


Yeah, we'll let you know when we find a dachsund that's bigger than a Great Pyrenees, too. In the meantime, those of us who herd sheep will keep using the correct dog to protect them.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: BobFout
If we compare a correct 5w30 (504.00 would be used in the 2.0T, not ACEA A5) to M1 0w40, M1 0w40 is thinner at all temps below 20C.

Clipboard01.png



Interesting. I'd love to have this chart going down to -30C. I operate between -10C and -30C all winter.



-42c here this morning
 
I would just like to say something, after "spectating" the earlier parts of my thread.

The original question was whether to use an ACEA A5 or A3 oil in a Jaguar motor.

Audi Junkie says he uses the dealer-provided (and free to him) 5W-40 (which is ACEA A3) in the summer, and Edge 5W-30 (ACEA A5) in the winter. He uses the thinner oil in the winter because he likes to experiment... but also for a valid reason - very short trips! I don't see where he ever says everyone should do likewise, or condemns people who do only 1 yearly oil change with an approved oil.

There have been a lot of harsh words, and it seems to me like it could all be explained by people just skimming posts and jumping to conclusions.

That is all, have a good day.
 
Sounds right.


Here's another good one...

TDTvsEdge.jpg


Oh wait, they are both "5w", so they are the same in cold....lol.
 
I find it suspect to generate a curve based upon two points that are nowhere near the extrapolated points you show. Suspect, suspect, suspect. The data is far too divergent to be trustable without significant experimental verification.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Please stay on topic:

Re: A5 (vs) A3


Edge 5w-30 is a thinner oil than M1 0w-40, get over it.


Let me know when you find an A3 oil that's thinner than an A5.


Define thinner... THere is no reason why viscosity at 100C of an A5 oil cant be higher than an A3. It is the HTHS where things like this start to really come out.

Down at/below the spec point, likely the 0w-40 is thinner than the 5w-30, as you would expect. How much so one woiuld need to run the experiment.
 
Those last plots look distinctly divergent to me.

Won't anyone concede anything?

A lot of "if's" and "because", but nothing more tangible than the visc calc. Can someone work backwards from MRVs? I'm open to a technical analysis.

Back on subject, and back a few pages, does anyone see a reason not to consider the simple example/advice of A5 in winter and A3 in summer?

My winter weather = -20c to 0c.

tdtgcetc.jpg
 
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