I just saw this. They sounded remarkably calm in contact with the tower.
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747 Hard Landing and Go Around
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I just saw this. They sounded remarkably calm in contact with the tower.
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Little to no flare - which led to the hard landing, but the nose down input after the bounce is a classic, serious error, and that caused the second bounce. Big mistake. Commonly made.
Good call on the go around.
The pilot monitoring was the one on the radio - so, a lot more calm than pilot flying, I would imagine.
Good call on the go around.
The pilot monitoring was the one on the radio - so, a lot more calm than pilot flying, I would imagine.
4WD
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Lufthansa is a serious airline - they are often part of my UA/LH trips and have taken both the 400 and 800i with them - and if UA has the long-haul (most B777/787) - then A321NEO on LH …
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It can get very busy complying with ATC instructions ( heading and altitude selections ) when doing unexpected Go arounds ( unstable late approach or botched landing ) for traffic separation reasons if you were cleared a visual approach at busy airports. Haven’t been to LAX for years but it was normally a visual approach clearance versus cleared for the ILS.
I have only done a few unexpected, low GAs and ATC isn’t expecting it when the weather is good ( not windy ) and it can get busy. You have to fly the aircraft first, but you also have to comply with ATC instructions while not allowing them to distract you with questions about why you went around until you have time.
Another nose wheel hitting the runway due to pilots mishandling a bounce.
Edit: visual approach clearances allow arrival controllers, and the tower, to run things tighter, separation wise ( move more traffic ) but some pilots seem unaware that there is no published missed approach ( even if you just flew the ILS but were cleared a visual ) and you fly runway heading until the tower gives you initial traffic separation instructions until they tell you to contact departure controllers.
I have only done a few unexpected, low GAs and ATC isn’t expecting it when the weather is good ( not windy ) and it can get busy. You have to fly the aircraft first, but you also have to comply with ATC instructions while not allowing them to distract you with questions about why you went around until you have time.
Another nose wheel hitting the runway due to pilots mishandling a bounce.
Edit: visual approach clearances allow arrival controllers, and the tower, to run things tighter, separation wise ( move more traffic ) but some pilots seem unaware that there is no published missed approach ( even if you just flew the ILS but were cleared a visual ) and you fly runway heading until the tower gives you initial traffic separation instructions until they tell you to contact departure controllers.
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Pardon my ignorance here as I know nothing about flying but I like watching planes - just trying to understand this scenario and I don't often have access to someone with your training. So you descend and at some point pull back the throttles and pull back on the yolk to "flare" and let the plane gently drop as you lose speed? If the first initial contact is hard, you're saying you do not push forward on the yoke or it just leads to another hard impact?
Please explain this to me like I'm in elementary school. I have lots of interest and no knowledge!
You can see a very brief elevator pitch down at 1:02. The pilot flying pushed forward (pitch down) and only commanded pitch down just past neutral, but that's all it takes. It's very easy to do and takes a lot of discipline to hold a slight elevator pitch up when you bounce.
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So now much trouble is the pilot in with the airline or the FAA?
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With the FAA? None, there wouldn't be any airplanes in the sky if everyone that had a bad landing got in 'trouble' with the FAA.
To the big iron Pilots; would the spoilers have kept it planted if they hadn't started the abort or it there enough rebound from the gear with that hard of a landing that the aircraft would have porpoised?
Couple thousand hours in bug smashers, some bigger bug smashers, but I don't have much detailed knowledge about this end of the flying spectrum. Oh, and did this a few times in my time...Tomahawk was a great teacher!
Couple thousand hours in bug smashers, some bigger bug smashers, but I don't have much detailed knowledge about this end of the flying spectrum. Oh, and did this a few times in my time...Tomahawk was a great teacher!
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Aircraft can bounce even when spoilers kill the lift if it contacts the runway hard enough.
In that video, from what I can see , I would NOT have done a go around if the nose wheel had not hit the runway and caused a second bounce ( bounce wasn’t that high ). They did the right thing doing a low energy go around.
On the Airbus , we arm the spoilers when the PF calls ….” gear down, before landing check” ( no lower than 1000 above ground ). Spoilers automatically extend upon touchdown with main wheels on runway and thrust at idle.
After take off, the PM disarms the spoilers during the after take flow which occurs normally above 1000 feet.
Spoilers are armed during before take off checklist in case of a rejected take off where they would automatically extend to kill lift and maximize wheel braking effectiveness.
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Thou shalt not spill the passengers drinks!!! even while inverted!!!
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That's an interesting point, since ATC was expecting you to land, but now you're flying into everything that is going on on the other side of the airport.
In my roughly 3 million miles as an air passenger, I've done easily 40-50 go arounds over the years. Surely there is an established procedure, it's not like it rarely happens.
I'm guessing and hoping that the pilots get to spend some mandatory time in the simulator after this event.
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I will go through my logbook later, but I have had very few go arounds in the last 25 years ( current airline ). I have many flaws but I have a good memory and I can recall only 7. Over this period, I have flown about 16,000 hours and did about 5500 approaches/landings.
40 - 50 go arounds is an insane amount.
It’s very rare that I hear some other airline going around and I have been on only one flight that did a go around ( passenger ).
Edit: checked logbook, 10 go arounds, including when demoted down to the CRJ when mainline still operated them ( bankruptcy ).
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Airlines never used to do as many late stage ( 1000 - 500 feet ) go arounds or low energy go arounds ( already in the flare ) until fairly recently due to adoption of strict stable approach and landing policies.
I think ATC has noticed and realizes just because an approach , or landing , looks routine to them, there is an increased chance, unlike before, that pilots might do a go around.
Even when doing visual approaches, ATC is on the ball, and will maintain proper traffic separation even if they weren’t expecting us to go around.
For pilots, it can get very busy , particularly if it was a low energy go around ( we don’t normally do them and you have to be more aware of when you can retract the flaps due to initiating the go around at a much lower airspeed ) combined with ATC wanting to know why and giving us low level off altitudes ( 1500 ) and headings for initial traffic separation.
I just did a ( below 50 feet ….last auto callout I recall ….”fifty” …. and just about to initiate flare at “ thirty” ) go around and it got real busy.
All safe but you need to be on the ball.
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So here is a dumb question
When there is a hard landing, how does a pilot in the cockpit know whether or not the wheels are on/off the ground when the rebound occurs?
When there is a hard landing, how does a pilot in the cockpit know whether or not the wheels are on/off the ground when the rebound occurs?
