7-11 Gasoline Good, Bad, Top Tier or Forget It !

[severach]

Lexus114, please check before you spread false information about oil boycotts.

Snopes: Gas Flout

I buy gas that gets me the best mileage. If Chavez makes it himself that's fine.

 

[elwaylite]

I don't buy Chavez gas because he hates the US, I do not buy it because of the way he treats his people. One of our branches employs Venezuelans and Colombians, and some of the [censored] that goes on down there (which you never hear about) is horrible. Cindy Sheehan, dumb [censored].

I only buy Shell or Chevron, just because I like their cleansing additives, and I care more about my car than the middle east.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: severach
Lexus114, please check before you spread false information about oil boycotts.

Snopes: Gas Flout

I buy gas that gets me the best mileage. If Chavez makes it himself that's fine.


Whoa!,my sister sent me that list.Oop`s sorry bout that.

 

[BearZDefect]

When I see a list claiming that BP does not import oil from some oil producing country in the middle east I write it off as bunk.

The Snopes write-up on this topic is excellent.

Unfortunately, we see that our very own largest oil company ExxonMobil is the biggest importer of middle-eastern oil to the USA.

 

[crinkles]

well why else would western governments meddle in middle eastern affairs? i won't go any further as it is political...

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: severach
Lexus114, please check before you spread false information about oil boycotts.

Snopes: Gas Flout

I buy gas that gets me the best mileage. If Chavez makes it himself that's fine.


Meh, I don't buy Shell/SOPUS products becuase of Shell's ongoing involvement in Iran.

http://www.shell.com/home/content/footer/contact/contact_iran.html

Chavez is a silly kook, but mostly harmless. Ahmedinejad and the mullah's are the real deal. I'd buy CITGO over Shell any day of the week.

Middle eastern oil comming into the US is going be Saudi/Kuwaiti/Omani/UAE etc.

Going into Europe/Asia, you can add oil from countries on the OFAC list (Iran, Sudan) to the list.

 

[paulo57509]

I've been using 7-11 gasoline for the past 10 years. Both Citgo and who ever is supplying their gasoline now.

No issues what so ever, other than political fall out.

 

[Drew2000]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but living near a large southeastern fuel distribution point, I can tell you with assurance that gasoline is now a purely generic commodity and that the "additive pack addition" is simply a marketing ploy. Whatever the sign says at your retail purchase location, you will have NO idea which refinery produced the product you are buying, nor should it make any difference to you.


While the raw unleaded may be a fungible commodity, the additive packages mixed at truck batching vary greatly from barely "meeting" EPA requirements, to Top-Tier level which performs significantly better regarding engine deposit-control than the generics.

The Top-Tier standard was developed by a group of auto manufacturers, (not the oil companies or refineries) to address problems that were developing in current low-emmission engines from inadequate detergent levels in EPA-minimum gasolines.

Also, the "name brands" tend to be more on the ball with their owned or leased terminal tank cleaning/maintenance and retail-level pump, filter and ground tank maintenance at the stations. The recent LukOil fiasco in NJ that left scores of motorists stranded from contaminated gasoline deliveries to several retail stations come to mind.

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but living near a large southeastern fuel distribution point, I can tell you with assurance that gasoline is now a purely generic commodity and that the "additive pack addition" is simply a marketing ploy. Whatever the sign says at your retail purchase location, you will have NO idea which refinery produced the product you are buying, nor should it make any difference to you.


While the raw unleaded may be a fungible commodity, the additive packages mixed at truck batching vary greatly from barely "meeting" EPA requirements, to Top-Tier level which performs significantly better regarding engine deposit-control than the generics.

The Top-Tier standard was developed by a group of auto manufacturers, (not the oil companies or refineries) to address problems that were developing in current low-emmission engines from inadequate detergent levels in EPA-minimum gasolines.

Also, the "name brands" tend to be more on the ball with their owned or leased terminal tank cleaning/maintenance and retail-level pump, filter and ground tank maintenance at the stations. The recent LukOil fiasco in NJ that left scores of motorists stranded from contaminated gasoline deliveries to several retail stations come to mind.


Drew, you've been drinking the corporate marketing Kool-Aid. The "additive pack" is pretty much just hype and when added at all doesn't amount to much. Mobil purported uses the largest additive pack which is about 1 quart added to 8-10,000 gallons of gasoline. What's that, about 1 part to 32,000 parts? Your injectors and valves will never know it's there!

As far as contamination goes, it can happen to any of them, especially with water. The last two I heard about in my area were with Shell and Citgo.

If it makes you feel any better to pay a few pennies more and think that you are getting something you are not, it's fine by me.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Generally [at least down here] 7-11 gas costs almost the same as a name brand gas...Maybe a penny or 2 less....A friend of mine just had to pay over 1K bucks to get his Expedition back on line after a real bad tank of RaceTrac...The gas as full of dirt.

If you stay with a name brand gas you most likely won't have a issue.

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but living near a large southeastern fuel distribution point, I can tell you with assurance that gasoline is now a purely generic commodity and that the "additive pack addition" is simply a marketing ploy. Whatever the sign says at your retail purchase location, you will have NO idea which refinery produced the product you are buying, nor should it make any difference to you.


While the raw unleaded may be a fungible commodity, the additive packages mixed at truck batching vary greatly from barely "meeting" EPA requirements, to Top-Tier level which performs significantly better regarding engine deposit-control than the generics.

The Top-Tier standard was developed by a group of auto manufacturers, (not the oil companies or refineries) to address problems that were developing in current low-emmission engines from inadequate detergent levels in EPA-minimum gasolines.

Also, the "name brands" tend to be more on the ball with their owned or leased terminal tank cleaning/maintenance and retail-level pump, filter and ground tank maintenance at the stations. The recent LukOil fiasco in NJ that left scores of motorists stranded from contaminated gasoline deliveries to several retail stations come to mind.


Drew, you've been drinking the corporate marketing Kool-Aid. The "additive pack" is pretty much just hype and when added at all doesn't amount to much. Mobil purported uses the largest additive pack which is about 1 quart added to 8-10,000 gallons of gasoline. What's that, about 1 part to 32,000 parts? Your injectors and valves will never know it's there!

If it makes you feel any better to pay a few pennies more and think that you are getting something you are not, it's fine by me.

So you are saying Top Tier (along with invigorate etc) means nothing. Sorry but I find that hard to believe. If it is advertised that a brands gas contains something, I think it better have.

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but living near a large southeastern fuel distribution point, I can tell you with assurance that gasoline is now a purely generic commodity and that the "additive pack addition" is simply a marketing ploy. Whatever the sign says at your retail purchase location, you will have NO idea which refinery produced the product you are buying, nor should it make any difference to you.


While the raw unleaded may be a fungible commodity, the additive packages mixed at truck batching vary greatly from barely "meeting" EPA requirements, to Top-Tier level which performs significantly better regarding engine deposit-control than the generics.

The Top-Tier standard was developed by a group of auto manufacturers, (not the oil companies or refineries) to address problems that were developing in current low-emmission engines from inadequate detergent levels in EPA-minimum gasolines.

Also, the "name brands" tend to be more on the ball with their owned or leased terminal tank cleaning/maintenance and retail-level pump, filter and ground tank maintenance at the stations. The recent LukOil fiasco in NJ that left scores of motorists stranded from contaminated gasoline deliveries to several retail stations come to mind.


Drew, you've been drinking the corporate marketing Kool-Aid. The "additive pack" is pretty much just hype and when added at all doesn't amount to much. Mobil purported uses the largest additive pack which is about 1 quart added to 8-10,000 gallons of gasoline. What's that, about 1 part to 32,000 parts? Your injectors and valves will never know it's there!

If it makes you feel any better to pay a few pennies more and think that you are getting something you are not, it's fine by me.

So you are saying Top Tier (along with invigorate etc) means nothing. Sorry but I find that hard to believe. If it is advertised that a brands gas contains something, I think it better have.


But you don't find it at all hard to believe that they tell you that they have added some magic elixir....but never quantify the additive? Exactly how much "invigorate" did the advertisement tell you was added? Repeatedly, independent lab testing has shown that any differences at all among different suppliers is nearly imperceptible. If "it" is there, it is not there in a high enough concentrations to make a real difference.

 

[Drew2000]

Ok, but why did the AUTO MANUFACTURERS develop the Top-Tier standard for deposit control if there is no difference in gasoline quality or performance?

Did BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Audi develop the TT standard just for laughs, or because the EPA moves much slower than technology and their minimums are out of date?

Shell states that their TT regular and mid-grade doubles the EPA detergent quantity, while the V-Power premium contains 5 times the EPA mandated amount. Seems quanitative to me.

Also, don't discount small quanities. The EPA is revising the arsenic levels for drinking water downward from 50PPB (thats billion) to 10PPB. The limits for lead in potable water is 15PPB. It does add up over time, or their wouldn't be any need for even the minimum EPA gasoline detergent standard.

The independent testing cited was for basic gasoline quality, not an exhaustive test of propriatary detergent packages and long term performace of deposit control.

Around here, the price difference between a Shell and BP vs Billy-Bob's gas'n go is around 0-2%, so there's not much pain using a branded station. But use what you want if the few pennies saving per gallon make you feel better.

 

[SWSportsman]

The whole "top tier" deal is a farce. Great tool for petroleum marketers, but little benefit for users.

The EPA has currently suspended enforcement and recordkeeping requirements on detergents anyway, "to avoid the disruption to the fuel distribution system."

Such giants as BP & Exxon-Mobil aren't even on the list of top-tier retailers, while "Turkey Hill Minit Market" & "Road Ranger" are! What a crock!!

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

 

[heypete]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
The whole "top tier" deal is a farce. Great tool for petroleum marketers, but little benefit for users.

The EPA has currently suspended enforcement and recordkeeping requirements on detergents anyway, "to avoid the disruption to the fuel distribution system."

Such giants as BP & Exxon-Mobil aren't even on the list of top-tier retailers, while "Turkey Hill Minit Market" & "Road Ranger" are! What a crock!!

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html


I seem to recall something about a similar suspension, but wasn't that back when Hurricane Katrina smashed up a bunch of oil production facilities near the Gulf of Mexico? I thought the suspension was temporary and meant only to minimize disruption. I don't recall any permanent suspension, but such things are often not widely reported.

Anyone have any citable facts?

As for top-tier gas, there may be several reasons why a brand might not be listed: perhaps BP and ExxonMobil use only the required detergents in regular gas, but have more additives in the premium grades? (I have no idea if this is true, I'm just speculating.) Such a condition would violate the top-tier requirements.

Perhaps getting top-tier certified requires the payment of a sum of cash that they simply don't want to bother paying?

Who knows who supplies the Turkey Hill and Road Ranger stations? Maybe they get their fuel from a refinery that puts top-tier qualified additive levels in all their grades of fuel?

 

[SWSportsman]

Lots of "perhaps" & "maybe's" there pete. I think we're pretty much at the industry's mercy.

Like the gifted one explained above, it doesn't seem to make much difference right now....the majors & the independents in my area are all within 2-4 cents per gallon of each other. I just buy where is it convenient.

 

[Drew2000]

Yeah, "gifted" like I try and know my facts before posting

The EPA never suspended the detergency requirements for gasoline, rather they relaxed the mandates for regional "boutique" blends, so gasoline blended for one EPA "non-attainment area" (that means dirty air) could be transported and sold in another.

The reason why some companies like BP don't participate in the TT program is resentment toward the auto manufactures for dictating gasoline standards without oil industry involvement.

Anyway it's been fun, Happy Motoring!

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: Drew2000
....I try and know my facts before posting...



Uhhh....it's not working. You may want to "try" harder!

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
The whole "top tier" deal is a farce. Great tool for petroleum marketers, but little benefit for users.

Top Tier is to gasoline as API certification is to oil.

 

[SWSportsman]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro

Top Tier is to gasoline as API certification is to oil.


Only to the totally uninformed.