about a year ago I replaced the 24F battery in my wife's minivan with a $48 Value battery from Walmart. JCI 585cca rated, 11/20 date code. was out of town for 2 week for the holidays the van sat at the airport in blowing snow and a couple days sub zero. the day we left the battery measured 695cca. when I got back to the airport I measured the voltage before starting it or operating anything that draws power. it measured 12.17v, or about 50% discharged. van started right up, cranked strong. after getting home and putting it on a 13.6V float charger for a couple days its now measuring 670cca. so it appears the 2 weeks of sitting at low SOC has sulfated it a bit. haven't tried to desulafte it yet. I continue to believe the Value battery is the best deal around.
$48 Value battery 2 week test
- Thread starter sky jumper
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JHZR2
Staff member
Impedance and thus “CCA” are SOC and temperature dependent. So the variance may mean nothing unless measured at consistent conditions.
I am surprised somewhat that the voltage dropped that far In two weeks. What kind of vehicle?
I am surprised somewhat that the voltage dropped that far In two weeks. What kind of vehicle?
Maybe. A few thoughts...
1) If it was colder during your post-airport test, that alone could account for a drop in CCA. Realize CCA is spec'd for a specific temperature, which is probably why you had CCA above the rating.
2) A year is not all that much reassuring. Battery end of life (for me) is when the remaining CCA falls below the minimum needed on a particularly cold day when I need it. It's not year one, but year 5+ where a higher remaining CCA may get me through another winter.
3) If I was leaving a vehicle parked for 2 weeks in an area not under my control, I would disconnect the battery, in which case it shouldn't drop as low as 12.17V in only two weeks.
4) You could be right, that the value battery gives the lowest cost per year, but then it may also mean having to replace it more often, possibly also get stuck and need a jump more often. How much the latter matters, can depend on who is around where you park, if a jump (or you pay money for a jump starter pack instead) is available. Granted, it is the era of cell phones, so it is easier than it used to be, to get help when stranded. Even so, either of these scenarios are worth a few bucks to me, as "was" (before WM reduced it) the longer warranty for the Everstart Maxx.
The way I look at it is, it's likely I get another year out of the Everstart Maxx. Suppose it is $100 instead of $48, and lasts 5 years. That's $20 per year, vs $12 per year if the value battery lasts 4. I don't feel like it is worth sweating $8/year on something that's an expected replacement item anyway, not when you consider the typical average yearly cost of owning/running a vehicle. It's a small % of the total, and to be expected that "top of the line" (anything) usually does cost disproportionately more.
At the same time I feel like an AGM is usually overkill, but would drift that direction, before the value battery. Give me the most battery that will fit in the available space. It'd be different, if winter temps didn't get down to ~10F here, but it does in Chicago too, if not a little lower than that.
One last thought. A minivan tends to have more room in the engine compartment so not pushing the limits of manufacturer volume/group-size of what battery will fit, as much as some cars are, so that size gives you more margin than some car owners in cold climates will have.
Heh, I've already put more thought/typing into it than I intended to, considering I consider it a sub-$10 yearly difference to get the higher capacity battery.
If your strategy works for your situation, enough said.
1) If it was colder during your post-airport test, that alone could account for a drop in CCA. Realize CCA is spec'd for a specific temperature, which is probably why you had CCA above the rating.
2) A year is not all that much reassuring. Battery end of life (for me) is when the remaining CCA falls below the minimum needed on a particularly cold day when I need it. It's not year one, but year 5+ where a higher remaining CCA may get me through another winter.
3) If I was leaving a vehicle parked for 2 weeks in an area not under my control, I would disconnect the battery, in which case it shouldn't drop as low as 12.17V in only two weeks.
4) You could be right, that the value battery gives the lowest cost per year, but then it may also mean having to replace it more often, possibly also get stuck and need a jump more often. How much the latter matters, can depend on who is around where you park, if a jump (or you pay money for a jump starter pack instead) is available. Granted, it is the era of cell phones, so it is easier than it used to be, to get help when stranded. Even so, either of these scenarios are worth a few bucks to me, as "was" (before WM reduced it) the longer warranty for the Everstart Maxx.
The way I look at it is, it's likely I get another year out of the Everstart Maxx. Suppose it is $100 instead of $48, and lasts 5 years. That's $20 per year, vs $12 per year if the value battery lasts 4. I don't feel like it is worth sweating $8/year on something that's an expected replacement item anyway, not when you consider the typical average yearly cost of owning/running a vehicle. It's a small % of the total, and to be expected that "top of the line" (anything) usually does cost disproportionately more.
At the same time I feel like an AGM is usually overkill, but would drift that direction, before the value battery. Give me the most battery that will fit in the available space. It'd be different, if winter temps didn't get down to ~10F here, but it does in Chicago too, if not a little lower than that.
One last thought. A minivan tends to have more room in the engine compartment so not pushing the limits of manufacturer volume/group-size of what battery will fit, as much as some cars are, so that size gives you more margin than some car owners in cold climates will have.
Heh, I've already put more thought/typing into it than I intended to, considering I consider it a sub-$10 yearly difference to get the higher capacity battery.
If your strategy works for your situation, enough said.
JHZR2
Staff member
The way I look at it, the value battery could allow a paradigm where you proactively change the battery sooner, since it is so much cheaper… you break even proactively changing every 2.5 years, anything else is in the money. No, I’m not sweating the money here either, but even in the worst cases batteries last 2.5 years. So the value line being so cheap is kind of worth it…
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
What kind of van?
With more modern cars, opening the doors and popping the hood "wakes up" the electronics and draws on the battery, and it just appears low. This happens with my 14' Grand Cherokee.
With more modern cars, opening the doors and popping the hood "wakes up" the electronics and draws on the battery, and it just appears low. This happens with my 14' Grand Cherokee.
^^ Seriously? I'd never again, buy any (same) battery that I felt like I should replace every 2.5 years. Saving the cost of a lunch or two a year... life is too short for that, and believe me, I'm the King Of Cheap, raised to pinch pennies and still I see the value.
Besides, if you replace every 2.5 years and I get 5+ out of the $100 Maxx (which I do) where is the savings?
I'm glad the market addresses both of our preferences, but to me, it is too little saved for the hassle, in the context of TCO of a vehicle.
Besides, if you replace every 2.5 years and I get 5+ out of the $100 Maxx (which I do) where is the savings?
I'm glad the market addresses both of our preferences, but to me, it is too little saved for the hassle, in the context of TCO of a vehicle.
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JHZR2
Staff member
I’m not saying you should… I’m saying you could. I rely upon objective evidence to condemn my batteries. I’m running dual group 65 value batteries in my one diesel. Very happy with them.
Batteries need to be replaced. An extra year for twice the price isn’t compelling to me, especially when it’s all hypotheticsl…
^ Yet, the hypothetical part was more that it was only a year difference, when in practice, you're stating it's more like 2.5 vs 5 years.
Frankly, if I had dual group 65 batteries, I'd look at using deep cycle. Single deep cycle can have current limitations but dual... I'd do the math.
Frankly, if I had dual group 65 batteries, I'd look at using deep cycle. Single deep cycle can have current limitations but dual... I'd do the math.
I've got the Walmart value batteries in several vehicles. Overall I've been pleased with them. The one in my f-150 is nearly 3 years old and is getting weak but still working. I'd say that's about as long as they're going to last. The one in my Mazda lasted 54 weeks and I replaced it with.... another value battery because they were out of the better ones in that size. Mazda had a china special head unit that also was a parasitic draw.
JHZR2
Staff member
No.. I was saying that changing the value battery twice as often is break even. Any longer fraction and the value battery is in the money. You have the five year figure… plausible for many.
It’s not like the mechanisms for failure and condemnation are different between the value battery and the highest end one.
Remember, they're not Walmart batteries, they're major-brand batteries with Walmart stickers on them. If people still think Johnson or Exide or East Penn or whoever go to the hassle of making "cheaper" versions for Walmart, they're foolish. They may make lower-grade batteries to meet certain price points but you'll find those in Autozone, O'Reilly, etc just like in Walmart and their "Value" line. Only difference is, WM's is usually still 1/2 the price.
How do you come to that conclusion? Are you a battery engineer? Did you cut open the battery to do an autopsy? All batteries discharge just from sitting, and they discharge even more in a vehicle which draws some current from the modules that power things like the clock, or alarm.
Oh I know. All the ones I have are Johnson Controls
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For me I will probably buy only the "value" battery because it seems that if the battery that is in a vehicle when I buy it usually lasts a long time. Like the one in my 17 frontier that I bought in 19 and still seems good. If it goes bad, and I replace it with the value model. It will quite certainly last till I no longer have that vehicle. 2 years ago was the last battery I bought, and I knew I was planning to sell that car soon. Personally I have had good luck with batteries over the last 60 years that I have been driving. But then, I usually change cars every 3 or 4 years. I did have a 80 chevy PU that I kept for 10+ years, and it still had the same battery in it. And My 65 mustang I have had for 12 years, with the same battery.
because its now measuring 25cca less than before. that was the whole point. my garage is heated, I don't think temperature accounts for that difference. and I further believe any battery would experience the same after sitting at low voltage for an extended time. but this was the first time I actually measured it.
this van is a 2012 Sienna. we have several vehicles with the 24F battery. i've always gotten Costco batteries in the past, and tend to get about 6yrs out of them. as far back as I recall they've all been the 700cca rated JCI units. my dad has a costco 24F dated 5/21 and it measures 753cca with my tester. I strongly suspect the difference is the 700cca units have 7 plates per cell whereas the Value battery has 6. that would roughly account for the weight and cca difference.
is that extra 15% capacity worth 2x the price? depends on what you expect. I expect to get 4-5yrs out of this Value battery. if it doesn't last at least 3yrs then i'll be disappointed.
but you can pretty much predict how long they will last. if the Costco battery starts out at 770cca and the Value battery starts out at 690cca, that extra 80cca equates to extra lifespan. how much extra life? in the case of my wife's van it begins to crank slower at about 450cca. so roughly speaking, in this vehicle, in our conditions, it takes 6yrs to chew up 300cca of capacity. or about 50cca/yr assuming it is linear (which it probably isn't). so that extra 80cca should extend the useable battery life 1-2yrs. is that 1-2yrs worth twice price? that's a personal choice.
is that extra 15% capacity worth 2x the price? depends on what you expect. I expect to get 4-5yrs out of this Value battery. if it doesn't last at least 3yrs then i'll be disappointed.
but you can pretty much predict how long they will last. if the Costco battery starts out at 770cca and the Value battery starts out at 690cca, that extra 80cca equates to extra lifespan. how much extra life? in the case of my wife's van it begins to crank slower at about 450cca. so roughly speaking, in this vehicle, in our conditions, it takes 6yrs to chew up 300cca of capacity. or about 50cca/yr assuming it is linear (which it probably isn't). so that extra 80cca should extend the useable battery life 1-2yrs. is that 1-2yrs worth twice price? that's a personal choice.
Self discharge is affected by the purity of the lead in the plates and the purity of the electrolyte, as well as temperature, and battery health.
2 weeks of unknown and parasitic draw + unknown actual state of charge when parked, much less 2 weeks later = no hard conclusions possible.
Put it on a charger, then drag voltage to below 12.7, then restart charger. Lather rinse repeat.
Bet the conductance tester goes up a little time each repeat for the first 3. Depends on how long it decides to hold it at absorption voltage. If floating overnight, use the AGM setting as it should float at 13.6 instead of 13.2, if the charger does hold a float voltage instead of just waiting for voltage to belled to 12.79 before kicking back on.
Perhaps the valuepower batteries are using plates classified as seconds, and electrolyte perhaps from the bottom of the barrell, perhaps contaminated.
perhaps they have higher self discharge because of this.
We'll never know for sure.
2 weeks of unknown and parasitic draw + unknown actual state of charge when parked, much less 2 weeks later = no hard conclusions possible.
Put it on a charger, then drag voltage to below 12.7, then restart charger. Lather rinse repeat.
Bet the conductance tester goes up a little time each repeat for the first 3. Depends on how long it decides to hold it at absorption voltage. If floating overnight, use the AGM setting as it should float at 13.6 instead of 13.2, if the charger does hold a float voltage instead of just waiting for voltage to belled to 12.79 before kicking back on.
Perhaps the valuepower batteries are using plates classified as seconds, and electrolyte perhaps from the bottom of the barrell, perhaps contaminated.
perhaps they have higher self discharge because of this.
We'll never know for sure.
I wish I got that much out of the one I bought. I got 17 months out of the Group 65 Value Power in my '02 F150. Had put it on a charger every 4-5 months to make sure it was fully charged. Truck does not get driven very often, so may sit for 2 weeks and then only drive a few miles, then sits for weeks again.
I replaced it with a Maxx in Dec of 2018, and that is on it's last legs (when it hit 30°F the other day it was very sluggish to start, put it on the charger over night the next night)
All I use are walmart batteries. The Maxx is the only option for two of our vehicles because that's the only group size they carry. My son's corolla has the value group 35, last one was still working at 4 years but I replaced it this winter. Battery life has a lot do to with where you live, not the brand. In WA state I've had batteries last 10 years.
