2020 Mustang with 330hp 4 Cylinder Offering

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Originally Posted by javacontour
It may be superb. Doesn't mean the car handles well.

Just think of all the folks who think the pinnacle of suspension tech is their Panther platform Crown Vic. It provides a smooth, marshmallow smooth ride, so it must be superb.

Superb is marketing puffery and essentially meaningless unless we know what criteria define success.

Originally Posted by edyvw

The same company that said that Toyota Camry has superb suspension?


CR criteria is very unique. When VW offered American made Passat, which is far cry from handling and updates offered in European Passat, they said: finally properly tuned suspension in VW.
 
Originally Posted by ddtmoto
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
This is cool and all, but I won't even consider a Mustang unless it has a V8.



....amen

However, take into consideration that 4cyl will offer much better weight distribution.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6

Ummm...you are aware of the steaming pile of crap that is the Focus RS's motor, right?


how exactly is it a "steaming pile of crap"? are you referring to the head gasket issue? that was the result of some one at the factory putting the wrong gasket on, and sealing of some coolant passages. with the right gasket, it's fine.

and it makes 350HP as delivered from ford, who have themselves said, that there is more there, but this is as high as they were willing to push the engine and still offer a warranty...
 
Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by StevieC
Who cares as long as the HP output is there?

Some people care about things like turbo lag or how the engine sounds.


I'd be curious how big the turbo actually is RE: lag. There's a twin-scroll in our Forester XT and it boosts WAY faster than my previous '08 STI. Except from a stand-still, it's nearly instantaneous.


Twin scroll in the Giulia and I see the same thing. From a stand still there is lag, but under pretty much all other conditions it's non-existent.
 
Originally Posted by earlyre
Originally Posted by Ws6

Ummm...you are aware of the steaming pile of crap that is the Focus RS's motor, right?


how exactly is it a "steaming pile of crap"? are you referring to the head gasket issue? that was the result of some one at the factory putting the wrong gasket on, and sealing of some coolant passages. with the right gasket, it's fine.

and it makes 350HP as delivered from ford, who have themselves said, that there is more there, but this is as high as they were willing to push the engine and still offer a warranty...


THANK YOU!!
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thumbsup2.gif


With the correct factory head gasket (which was done under recall, and corrected at the factory on latter model years), and the proper amount of charge cooling, these things can put out insane amounts of power, without having to be 'built', unlike some of the other much worshipped 4 pots out there.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by earlyre
Originally Posted by Ws6

Ummm...you are aware of the steaming pile of crap that is the Focus RS's motor, right?


how exactly is it a "steaming pile of crap"? are you referring to the head gasket issue? that was the result of some one at the factory putting the wrong gasket on, and sealing of some coolant passages. with the right gasket, it's fine.

and it makes 350HP as delivered from ford, who have themselves said, that there is more there, but this is as high as they were willing to push the engine and still offer a warranty...

I think bigger issue was that engine is open deck as far as I know. BMW had that in N55 six cyl, but they limited hp up to 355 in M2, and for M2 Competition, M3/M4 used closed deck version.
 
Originally Posted by dailydriver
[With the correct factory head gasket (which was done under recall, and corrected at the factory on latter model years), and the proper amount of charge cooling, these things can put out insane amounts of power, without having to be 'built', unlike some of the other much worshipped 4 pots out there.
wink.gif

"My turbo car is better than your turbo car even though the intercooler is too small and the HG is on backwards"
 
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
This is cool and all, but I won't even consider a Mustang unless it has a V8.

This is cool and all but a 1990 Mustang with the 302 came in at a cool 220 hp.

While one may not care for the horsepower presentation from a 4 cylinder, they're much better these days from a pure performance perspective.



Screenshot_2019-04-15-18-57-34.png
 
It's not so much the engine as what it's going in; I've had four turbocharged fours and I liked all of them, but if I'm driving a big and brash American ponycar, anything other than a V8 just seems wrong- kind of like a Miata with an automatic.
When I bought my 2er a 2015 Mustang GT Performance Package was a very close runner-up, but the four and six cylinder Mustangs were never an option.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by StevieC
Who cares as long as the HP output is there?

Some people care about things like turbo lag or how the engine sounds.


Exactly. Nothing like the sound of a V8!
 
I think of this car as being a niche care or an enthusiast car. Anyone remember the turbo 4cyl Mustang SVO? It was a sweet car!! And pretty fast if I remember correctly.
 
Originally Posted by javacontour
I really want to like a powerful 4 cylinder Mustang. But I think if I was buying a Mustang, I'd want a V8, because tradition.

Doesn't mean the 4 cylinder isn't a fine offering.

Probably a great deal purchased used.

I don't think I'd touch a new one with a 10 foot pole. Values probably plummet like a lead brick in a vacuum.

The asian community is laughing because they have been doing it on 4 cylinders for years.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by StevieC
No I found an article about it confirming what I already knew to show you it's not just me that knows they are terrible.

OK, but we still don't know what CR thinks of Ford. Maybe they think Ford is even worse?
smile.gif


In any case, CR reliability ratings use some questionable methodology...

https://www.allpar.com/cr.html

If you look at JD Power, they have Mercedes ahead of Ford in their dependability study.

We all know that JD Powers is biased to where the Cheque's come from.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by StevieC
No I found an article about it confirming what I already knew to show you it's not just me that knows they are terrible.

OK, but we still don't know what CR thinks of Ford. Maybe they think Ford is even worse?
smile.gif


In any case, CR reliability ratings use some questionable methodology...

https://www.allpar.com/cr.html

If you look at JD Power, they have Mercedes ahead of Ford in their dependability study.

We all know that JD Powers is biased to where the Cheque's come from.
wink.gif


My point was, if you look hard enough, you will eventually find a study that supports your POV..

I don't necessarily trust any of them.
 
Holden made a 4 cylinder COmmodore back in the '90s, but threw on tiny brakes and wheels to save a bob...it was junk...and you coudn't easily retrofit a 6/8, you needed all the running gear, brakes, suspension and wheels...get a second hand 6.

Unexpectedly, Ford put the 4 cylinder ecoboost in the Oz Falcon, and while the purists bagged it, the motoring press actually praised it quite highly for it's economy, handling...and yes, relative performance.
 
Heck, every car in my household is a 4 cylinder save the 1999 MGM that we bought off my grandma when she quit driving 5 years ago.

I love my Mazdas. My wife's Rav4 could use a V6, but I think it keeps her out of trouble. I've driven a V6 Nissan Altima and it's not needed, but does sound nicer than the 2.5L 4 cylinder tractor motor in our 2010.

But if I were getting a pony car, it would be a V8.

But I'll probably buy a Miata or simiilar, if I fit in one.

That will be the determining factor. Since I'm tall from the waist up where do my eyes and head end up in a Miata. I know I cannot own the first gen because I end up looking at the top of the windshield.

My concern about the 4 cylinder Mustang dropping in value is merely the concern of the depreciation, which I think might be worse for a 4 cylinder due to what you see here. People who shop the Mustang are probably looking for the V8 4 out of 5 times.

It will be a heck of a used car bargain.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by javacontour
I really want to like a powerful 4 cylinder Mustang. But I think if I was buying a Mustang, I'd want a V8, because tradition.

Doesn't mean the 4 cylinder isn't a fine offering.

Probably a great deal purchased used.

I don't think I'd touch a new one with a 10 foot pole. Values probably plummet like a lead brick in a vacuum.

The asian community is laughing because they have been doing it on 4 cylinders for years.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
[BMW is notorious for dragging their feet over timing chain issues.
What are these timing chain issues? Which engines specifically do these issues pertain to?

I'm obviously not in the loop on the latest BMW engine pros/cons.




Most recent :N20, N26 which followed them stateside. https://bmwtechnician.com/2019/01/31/n20-n26-timing-chain-7-70-list/

A little older but within the last 15 yrs: N47 in the UK which took a threat of a class action for BMWUK to figure out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N47

I mean seriously, how these problems never came up during testing is beyond my imagination.


The new B-series engines appear to be "ok" but who the -blank- knows.
21.gif


N20 ans N26 were fixed two years after introduction. And BMW is not the only one with those issues.


BMW may not be the only one, but IMO for the amount of $$ the customer pays to acquire these vehicles they should never have this issue. Timing chains have been used for decades. If one is going to deal with timing chain issues on a 4 cylinder, they might as well buy a VW Passat, which gives an extra 2 yrs/25k miles of warranty and saves $15k.
 
Originally Posted by gathermewool
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by StevieC
Who cares as long as the HP output is there?

Some people care about things like turbo lag or how the engine sounds.


I'd be curious how big the turbo actually is RE: lag. There's a twin-scroll in our Forester XT and it boosts WAY faster than my previous '08 STI. Except from a stand-still, it's nearly instantaneous.

Could be a variable type system. My CX5 has no lag. 2000rpm = 310 pounds of torque.
 
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