2015 Lexus NX 200t - New turbo using TGMO 0W-20?

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Mobil1 UK: Lexus oil...

http://www.mobil1.co.uk/which-synthetic-engine-oil/lexus-engine-oil.aspx


Yes they have been using xw20 for a while now, they crawl around at low speeds like we do in the US.
Even worse from what i read the place is saturated with speed cameras.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Solarent


Also if you have a DI engine, regular use of a fuel system cleaner is also a good idea. In one of the new engine tests being developed for GF-6 they have found that use of a good cleaner help them obtain more consistent results. It's also being recommended by some OEMs as a part of the regular maintenance.


Absolutely Solarent. If not for cleaning the back of the valves, it may help with maintaining injector spray pattern consistent.

 

[Solarent]

Yup, and combustion chamber deposits that can also be a source of low speed pre ignition...

 

[Skid]

Originally Posted By: Blue_Angel
Dragging this one up...

From the NX200T manual:

"Use Lexus approved “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil SAE 0W-20 for Direct Injection Turbo Gasoline Engines” or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity.

Oil grade: “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil SAE 0W-20 for Direct Injection Turbo Gasoline Engines” or ILSAC GF-5 multigrade engine oil

Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20"

So did Toyota come out with a revised 0W-20 for this engine, or are they now referring to their good-old TGMO as “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil SAE 0W-20 for Direct Injection Turbo Gasoline Engines”?

If so, do we have to call it TGMO-DITGE?

Some pictures for the apparent non-believers.

How does CATERHAM go from seeing this filler cap to assuming the underlying chemistry of the oil? Anyway, the manual does say "or" GF-5.

 

[Shannow]

Makes stuff up ???

Interesting the viscosity explainations which have the standard disclaimer regarding speed and load...like that's a surprise.

Here's a chart from Honda's research that shows a typical load map of US engines versus other applications.

Paper here...

When the typical operating envelope is so clearly defined as the US, then it's pretty safe to send a one size fits all message...with a disclaimer.

 

[wemay]

I just cannot wrap my mind around Toyota recommending an oil that would make the vehicle less reliable. 0w20 has been out long enough for the engineers, blenders and everyone in between to get it right. Same as comparing GroupIII to GroupIV oils. Some here would have you think that GroupIII is nowhere near as good. This may have been true in the early days of synthetic GroupIII, yet today they may share the strictest approvals. So weather it's CAFE mandated or not, the OEMs must find a way, and their engineers do. Is there ever a (rare) hiccup? Yes, a small fraction of OEM recommendations are changed midstream. But that is a small, very small fraction.

 

[bigt61]

Castrol BMW Longlife-14FE+ oil - 0W-20

Castrol EDGE Professional, boosted with
TITANIUM FST, provides outstanding oil strength for today’s engines that
work harder, with higher pressures than ever before.
Castrol EDGE is our strongest and most advanced range of engine oils. Its
TITANIUM FST doubles its film strength,
preventing oil film breakdown and reducing friction.
Castrol EDGE Professional with TITANIUM FST™
: helping your engine perform at its best.
Castrol EDGE Professional is now certified CO2 neutral according to the highest global standards. Engineered with
Micro-Filtration in order to meet Castrol Professional’s new quality standard and verified using Castrol’s new Optical
Particle Measurement System (OPMS) to guarantee product quality. Complete with UV tracer as signature of product
authenticity

- appears to be pretty stout.

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/F52B324345857DDD80257DB0003E7DDA/$File/BPXE-9STSCG.pdf

 

[Shannow]

wemay,
reliability engineering is about balancing out ALL of the factors in the equation, risk, consequence, loss of production, reputation in the market...and yes, CAFE.

The engineers and beancounters will pick a point where all of those things are balanced to the corporate expectation...and that means compromises on everything.

You don't expect the engineers to put the very best tyres on the vehicle, have paint that lasts 100 years, and accept that there's compromises between ride and handling, so what's really so hard about wrapping your head around another compromise.

It makes zero sense to have an engine that outlasts the chassis threefold...

 

[wemay]

Shannow,
Agreed. But there's a balancing act in every market, not just the U.S.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Shannow,
Agreed. But there's a balancing act in every market, not just the U.S.


There is...why do you think that your and Japan's is so swayed in one direction ?

Look at the chart I posted.

Engine load and speed range percentiles indicate that the balance can be pushed heavily one way in the US, as that's how they use their cars...with their particular incentives and pressures to do so.

Everyone else in the world has "oil" stamped on their cap, or a picture of an oil can, and a range in their owners manual...US has particular regulations on requiring the OEM to take every endeavour to ensure that the grade that the vehicle was certified on for CAFE is the same grade that the customer uses (anti backsliding is their term for it).

That's part of the compromise in the US.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


Engine load and speed range percentiles indicate that the balance can be pushed heavily one way in the US, as that's how they use their cars...


Right, all things considered, it has been determined this viscosity will afford the North American consumer the best compromise between reliability and fuel savings based upon the regulations already in place. Our contention being how much fuel savings at the expense, or perceived expense of reliability. I guess time will give us the only true answer.

 

[Shannow]

CAFE will continue to march in it's direction.

The clunkers programme, wrecking engines with sodium silicate to destroy them indicated that TPTB don't think the compromise is sufficiently in favour of economy over reliability. Engines lasted too long, and needed to be replaced with more efficient versions.

And reliability in the context here isn't leaving you stranded at the side of the road (the pile of failed engines strawman)...it's the context that a quart of oil per 1,000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


And reliability in the context here isn't leaving you stranded at the side of the road (the pile of failed engines strawman)...it's the context that a quart of oil per 1,000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.


Admittedly, i wasn't viewing it from this angle.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


And reliability in the context here isn't leaving you stranded at the side of the road (the pile of failed engines strawman)...it's the context that a quart of oil per 1,000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.


After all burning a quart of oil per 1,000 miles will most likely get you past the warranty period for the cat from oil poisoning. Then they can charge you $2,000 for a replacement cat

.

Whimsey

 

[Koz1]

So now that we know it uses 0w20 what next?
All turbos switch to Toyota 0w20?
What about all the nay Sayers, (It could never be 0w20)?
At least its protected during start up eh.

 

[Greasymechtech]

All you need is an oil cooler temp control, sump capacity, and acceptable oil pump capacity. With those 3, you could run 0w8 oil.

Brought to you by the automaker that gave you sludge monsters and oil burners.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Koz1
So now that we know it uses 0w20 what next?
All turbos switch to Toyota 0w20?
What about all the nay Sayers, (It could never be 0w20)?
At least its protected during start up eh.


Not so sure about that side either....
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3686331/1

 

[Koz1]

I would have to see the article referenced.
Are you using computer models or real data points.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Did I miss something, but since when BMW is using W20?

BMW came out with "FE" versions of a couple of their specs in the last while and I believe it is the more recent incarnation that has an xW-20 as a part of it.

Nothing wrong with using a 20-weight if the engine is designed for it. If BMW has taken the effort to ensure it works, I'm sure it works perfectly fine.

well if an engine is designed for xxW-20 grade oil use in North America is it OK to use in much warmer climates too ... that is... when it is 40°F outside in winter and when it is 60°F outside and in the summer when it is 80°F and when it is 100°F outside temperatures ?

If the engine designed for a 20 grade then why not OK to use in warmer outside temperatures ?

i'm not talking about racing engines or extended high rpm drivers!

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Shannow

And reliability in the context here isn't leaving you stranded at the side of the road (the pile of failed engines strawman)...it's the context that a quart of oil per 1,000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.

After all burning a quart of oil per 1,000 miles will most likely get you past the warranty period for the cat from oil poisoning. Then they can charge you $2,000 for a replacement cat

.

Whimsey

oh no .... oil consumption comes only when the engine is not designed for the 20 wt grades or when the engine is an oil drunkun AUTOmobile.
i have seen 20 wt used in engines spec'd for a 20 wt with near ZERO oil consumption all year round.
if using in wrong oil grade + in wrong engine = disaster strikes... not just simple oil consumption eh, many more troubles.