10,255 miles on amsoil 15/40 = copper @364ppm

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Aluminum 2
Chromonium 0
Iron 9
copper 7
lead 1
tin 0
moly 48
nickel 0
maganese 0
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 38
boron 38
silicon 4
sodium 9
calcium 1334
manesium 878
phosphorus 991
zinc 1097
barium 0

sus visc 73.4
cst visc 13.85
flashpoint 420
Antifreeze ?
Water 0
fuel insolubles 0.3
 
Chris - Allow me to help out a bit. This was also posted over at diesel place, so I got some info from there.

This UOA posted above is with Devlac 1300 15w-40, for 5.9k miles (just shy of the universal average 6.6k for a Dmax).

Clearly, the numbers came right back down to "normal" with just a flush with good ol' dino oil. That leads us to only one conclusion; the Amsoil was spiking the Cu and Fe. No big suprise; at least not to me. Seen it happen too many times not to understand the relationship and reactions.

Now, the deeper question is what to do going forward? Do you go back to Amsoil? To be honest, that's not necessarily a bad decision, IF you choose to run extended OCIs and get your money's worth out of the extra cost for the oil. If you drive a lot of total miles in a year, then synthetics do make sense fiscally, by extending the OCIs. If you choose this course, then you'll know that the Cu and Fe spikes are truly not a significant wear event, but the chemical stripping of Cu, and likely at levels high enough to cause Fe wear. After a time, these will likely settle down. The underlying issue is that while this is happening, all that "noise" in the UOAs will mask any potential tell-tale signs of other problems. That's part of the risk using Amsoil during this "chemical reaction" period. And it's really hard to know just how much the Amsoil will spike the numbers; some Dmax's don't seem to react too badly, others nearly "freak out" with Cu spiking well over 500ppm, and at times nearing 1000ppm! And the Fe often will drag right along with the Cu, but at a reduced level. When this does happen, it can be quite "painful" (emotionally speaking, for a lack of a better term) because you're going to agonize over one of two choices:
1) do you choose to use Amsoil, and run out your OCIs to get the value out of the fluid? Not a bad decision, but one that has lots of risk in that you will be accumlating many, many miles before the Cu and Fe come down. It might take 50k miles for that to happen. Why? Well, you'd have to run at least 25k miles per OCI to get any "value" out of your Amsoil financially, and you'd have to probably run two OCIs at that 25k mile duration, to flush out the "chemical reaction". That's 50k miles worth of elevated numbers that can mask OTHER problems, should they arise. You'll have to "trust" that everything Amsoil tells you is "OK" is really "OK". You'll never know because of the way the Cu and Fe spikes mask other potential problems.
2) you could choose to do a few "flushes" with Amsoil, running perhaps three OCIs back to back over perhaps 3k miles each. That would hopefully be enough over 9k miles to both have the chemical reaction happen, and then flush out the resultant Cu and Fe from each new OCI. But that can be unworldly expensive to dump Amsoil 3x quickly! To put some generic easy numbers to it, Amsoil costs approximately 3x more money to purchase, and you'd be flushing 3x more often, so it would cost you 9x more money! You could run one dino OCI or three Amsoil OCIs over the same 9k miles driven. For that same 9x Amsoil cost factor, you could run about 90k miles on dino oil OCIs. The math really makes this a painful choice, doesn't it!

So you really have three choices, overall:
a) dino oils at normal intervals (this results in more frequent maintenance cycles; either a pro or con, depending upon how you look at it ...)
b) Amsoil at long intervals and put up with UOAs that are grossly skewed for many, many miles
c) Amsoil flush cycles that empty your wallet in a hurry

I can't tell you which one is right for you. I don't know your tolerance level for wasting money, doing lots of OCIs, turning away from UOAs, etc.

Once again, I feel compelled to be fair and say that I'm not suggesting or stating that Amsoil is a bad product line; nothing could be further from the truth. I've seen plenty of proof of excellent Amsoil performance in many UOAs over the years. But part of the "truth package" also includes the reality that the use of Amsoil is not without risks and choices. There are many Dmax owners that turn away from Amsoil because for them, the risks outweigh the rewards.

Only you can decide what's right for you, but at least you have good information to make your decision.

P.S. - You might read the UOA thread on the 7.3PDS by ottomatic; in there he makes a comment about using Amsoil for 100k miles in his Dmax, and he is "unimpressed" ... I have asked for details regarding that comment, and it might be directly applicable to your decision. Here is the direct quote:
"I am looking for a dino to put back in the DMAX and the toss up is between the Delo and Rotella. After 1000,000 mi on AME in Dmax I am unimpressed." (note: I think he meant 100,000 miles and not 1000,000 miles)




Dave.
 
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To me it's between 2 choices now; and one is purely reliant on the other.
I should cut and paste your signature to mine, with the exception I started out on synthetic. I spend approx. $94 for an Amsoil change , $43 for a Delvac, unless I find it for $8.99 a gal bringing it to $29 a change. I go 10-11k a year and have a fumoto valve so OCI's twice a year are nothing for me.
If My truck were a DD and mostly stock I would use Amsoil for 25k+ miles most likely. With my drag racing and pulling (approx 20-25 passes and 10-12 pulls) I'm not too comfortable with going the distance needed to see a ROI with Amsoil.
1st choice: Delvac (Delo's OK also I'd say) will be what I use I guess. Be nice to find it for $8.99 again but $14.99 is better than $24.99 for sure. UOA's come back good so I'm happy with the mechanical and financial aspect of Mobil.
2nd choice: I can get Schaeffers 7000 for around $19-20 I think. If Delvac is 15 and Schaeffers is 19 I would research if it would be beneficial, but then we start all over with no history. Most likely not but it was an option I had in mind when I build the motor one day. Guess what I mean is I only have one choice that makes sense, the other is just "an option" I guess.

Amsoil was fun while it lasted; but now havin' kept her around for a while, she's just not as fun as she used to be. I'll continue to use it in everything that I change at long intervals like the transfer case and differentials, my z-turn, wifes car, ect.

Thank you all for the help, It means a lot to have such knowledgeable help
Chris
 
You're in the same situation that many of us diesel owners are. We bought trucks for temporary use, and we cannot justify the expense of synthetics for such low annual mileage.

If my DD were a Dmax and I ran 35k or 50k miles a year, I'd run synthetics and bypass filtration for sure. But I don't, so it simply does not pay off in my situation.

I'll say that you can probably shop around, given your location and your knowledge. It is no hard to find good quality HDEO for less than $10/gallon, if you are patient. What I do is wait for a sale, and then get at least two years worth of oil all at once, that way I have an OCI buffer. I have not paid (even in today's market) more than $10/gallon since I ever got my Dmax. Recently, Valovline Premium Blue (extellent HDEO, by the way) was 8.99/gallon at Napa and I think OR's. Sometimes its Castrol's Tection Extra. Sometimes it's Delvac. Shop around, and you'll eventually find oil cheap for a quality good name brand. Of all the UOAs I've seen, I have yet to see any of the major brands give poor results. Don't think you have to stick to just one or two brands; Delo, Delvac, Rotella, VPB, Penzoils LLG, Tection Extra, etc all do very well in a Dmax up to 10k miles.
 
How does switching up affect my UOA's ? Most times around here it's either Delvac or Delo on sale, although I believe I may have seen the Valvoline at OR's lately. I work for an oil distributor so I'll have to see what we sell. Last time I bought oil for the wifes car I came home with 5-30 pen platinum for like 2.75 a qt.
 
JD,

I too have listened to dnewton3 and now follow the OLM for OCI's when using conventional HDEOs. FWIW, the GM OLM is very conservative....

Merry Christmas...

Rob
 
Originally Posted By: JD4440
How does switching up affect my UOA's ? Most times around here it's either Delvac or Delo on sale, although I believe I may have seen the Valvoline at OR's lately. I work for an oil distributor so I'll have to see what we sell. Last time I bought oil for the wifes car I came home with 5-30 pen platinum for like 2.75 a qt.


Being that you work for an oil distributor, I'd think you could eventually find a good score on HDEO from any quality brand name at one time or another.

Getting PP for $2.75 is a major score! That is excellent oil.


Let me be specific about UOAs and how changing oil brands/grades affects the UOA.

UOAs can give you two types of info;
1) they can directly tell you how your oil is doing
2) they can INdirectly tell you how your engine is doing.

With regard for item 1, if you use the same oil time and time again, you can develop a solid understanding on how that brand/grade of oil can compare to another, if that other analysis is also done under the same conditions. Under this approach, you can truly understand your ranges and trends and make really good decisions on OCIs, and predictive maintenance plans.

But when you hop from brand to brand, you can no longer make direct comparisons of one oil to another, to call one "better" than another. What you CAN do is distinguish what ones don't do well. That is exactly what's happened with the Amsoil you were using. It's not that Amsoil makes a bad product; that is just a false statement. What is clear is that Amsoil was not the "best" choice for your application. The UOA results were being skewed and giving a bad view of what else might be happening.

If you choose to use several different brands of oil and choose to do UOAs, you'll not be able to tell which one is "best" from a single UOA, when comparing/contrasting one to another. But when they ALL turn in good results (good meaning numbers at or near the universal averages), there are two conclusions you can draw.
1) that all the oils are "good enough" for the purpose and conditions you use them under
2) that your engine is apparently in good enough health that brand/grade does not matter

In a simplistic sense, it boils down to this. Single UOAs cannot tell you which oil is best, but they can tell you which ones don't work well. If an oil is doing as well, or better, than the universal average, you can presume that all is good enough for continued use.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Did some looking on filters today. Am I reading right that the delco filter is 25-30 micron and the Napa is 21 ? I figured the AC was the better filter, does the paper vs metal end caps, ect have any real bearing on the quality of a filter ?
 
Overall either is fine. Nominal ratings don't really tell much.

As you may know, the Napa Gold is just a rebadged Wix; very good filters. Very robust construction. Not the "best" in overall efficiency, as the M1 and EaO will be a bit "better" in that regard, but the concept is similar to the one of dino versus synthetics. For "normal" OCIs out to 10k miles or so, the Wix/NG is an excellent choice with very strong build, and more than capable for a lot less money than some of the upscale alternatives.

If you have more specific q's regarding filters, please post in the filter section forum.
 
Well, my pride and joy is letting me down. Head gasket seems to be letting go but leaking to the outside only. Been experiencing a hard upper hose for a while. How do I fit this into my UOA history? Do I sample the oil when I do the HG job and document it in the notes? It won't be near 6k miles I don't think.
 
Originally Posted By: JD4440
Well, my pride and joy is letting me down. Head gasket seems to be letting go but leaking to the outside only. Been experiencing a hard upper hose for a while. How do I fit this into my UOA history? Do I sample the oil when I do the HG job and document it in the notes? It won't be near 6k miles I don't think.


Quote:

Not sure where 20 ppm K comes from. Na and Si are low, so it doesn't appear to be dirt. Could be the beginning or end of a coolant leak.
 
Well that's not a job I want to do too very often! I ran it 50 miles and changed the oil hot as usual through my fumoto valve. Hopefully my next UOA won't be too skewed .
 
OK, Only 3,ooo miles on this oil and I get a "change engine oil" message . WTH ?!
 
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it was telling me to change it right before we did my gaskets. I reset it then and am almost 100% positive I did it after the 50 mile change.
What do you think, reset it and see how quickly it returns ?
 
Yes, I'd try that approach.

I'm sure you're aware, but some may not be, so let's recap how the GM OLM works. It's a program that takes in operating data such as OAT, ECT, rpms, engine loading, etc and then reports the estimated % of oil life left based upon a chart in its memory bank. That chart is a result of GMs long-lived oil studies compared/contrasted to actual oil lifecycle as reviewed against those operating conditions.

So, one of three things has happened in your case.
1) the OLM was not reset. (You may have attempted to reset it, but not successfully done so. I had this problem once when I tried to reset the fuel filter counter ... it was my carelessness in not confirming it actually happened).
2) you've had some really significant shift in your use or operating pattern that actually resulted in the shift in the OLM
3) you've got a sensor giving incorrect data to the OLM, thereby shifting the OLM lifecycle.

Of those three, I'd suspect it was #1. Not trying to pick on you; mistakes happen, as it did to me. If you're confident this is not the case, then only the other two are possible root causes, and you'll have to deternime which it is.

Resetting the OLM will help determine if #2 or #3 are true, because being able to repeat such a short OLM cycle would lead you to eliminating #1, and proving out one of the others.
 
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I'll agree, #1 is most likely even though I believe it reset things happen. If it were a sensor I'd almost believe it would set an MIL for performance of that sensor. I've reset it now, well see how it goes. Odo reads 74,3xx for future reference
 
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