0W-20 vs 5W-20

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Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
With all the talk of "thin" and 0w oils being the future when will 5w oils be obsolete and why? Not complaining as i have been entertaining the idea of using 0w-30 in the Nissan.
Considering GM still uses 5w30 for their dexos 1 specs, 5w will probably be around for longer. What is more plausible of vanishing first is 10w, which is required less as newer cars hit the road.


Does any new vehicle specify a 10w-anything. Maybe a diesel out there somewhere calls for a 10w-30 Hdeo?
 
Almost all diesels still call for 15W-40 or 10W-30.

And I know a few folks around her who will love that this is documented somewhere; Cummins at least demands a 10W-30 with a HTHS over 3.5 to prevent loss of viscosity with a 10W-30. They do, however, state you can use 10W-30 in almost every engine they sell (from truck engines to mining equipment) so long as that requirement is met.

A 5W-30 or 0W-30 HDEO would need to be much more overbuilt then a 10W- in this application to survive the engine environment (shear, etc).

10W-30's, 5W-30's, a lot of these specifications will linger just because they can be met with cheaper base oils. 0W- oils need a quality base stock to survive, and in general cost more then 5W- oils. 10W-30 in PCMO applications will likely die out, just because 5W-30's in most new passenger cars, at worst, shear out to a 5W-20, which is fine.

What I find more funny is the continued existence of SAE30 special thanks to lawnmowers.
 
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Almost all diesels still call for 15W-40 or 10W-30.


Where did you pluck that gem from ?

Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Volkswagen, Ford, Mazda all spec 5W-30, Non CI4 oils.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Almost all diesels still call for 15W-40 or 10W-30.


Where did you pluck that gem from ?

Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Volkswagen, Ford, Mazda all spec 5W-30, Non CI4 oils.


This is hilarious. You can search the forum you're currently on to find out you're totally wrong because there's plenty of threads where quick lube places chucked generic 5W-30 in diesel cars and trucks to the horror of our members.

But you're an engineer, sorry. I'll take your bitter advice because you can't just let things be and not use the tiniest modicum of intelligence to discover its totally wrong.
 
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Almost all diesels still call for 15W-40 or 10W-30.


Where did you pluck that gem from ?

Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Volkswagen, Ford, Mazda all spec 5W-30, Non CI4 oils.


This is hilarious. You can search the forum you're currently on to find out you're totally wrong because there's plenty of threads where quick lube places chucked generic 5W-30 in diesel cars and trucks to the horror of our members.

But you're an engineer, sorry. I'll take your bitter advice because you can't just let things be and not use the tiniest modicum of intelligence to discover its totally wrong.


http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-engine-oils/esp-formula-5w-30.aspx

Quote:
BMW Longlife 04
MB-Approval 229.31 / 229.51
Volkswagen (Petrol/Diesel) 504 00 / 507 00
Porsche C30
Chrysler MS-11106
Peugeot/Citroën Automobiles B71 2290 & B71 2297
AvtoVAZ Group "Luxe"
AAE Standard STO 003-05, Group B6
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 meets or exceeds the requirements of:
ACEA C2, C3
API (Meets Engine Test Requirements) SM / SN
JASO DL-1
According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is of the following quality level:
API CF
Volkswagen (Petrol) 502 00 / 503 00 / 503 01
Volkswagen (Diesel) 505 00 / 505 01 / 506 00 / 506 01
All VW engines with the exception of Unit-Injector/Pump-Duse TDI without LongLife Service and without DPF between 1999-2003 and R5/V10-TDi before model year 2006


He's not wrong.

Many of the small displacement passenger car diesels (not the truck diesels) spec a 5w30 oil (with the necessary approvals of course).
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Many of the small displacement passenger car diesels (not the truck diesels) spec a 5w30 oil


Sorry, guess when I read "all spec 5W-30, Non CI4 oils." I should have understood that as the subset of small passenger car diesels which are typically rare in North America. Almost must mean absolutely everything, and all must mean a specific few now.

Originally Posted By: DragRace
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I'm with you on this one now. Thing is, someone getting their panties in a bind and using my suggestion that many diesel still take 10W-30 to enact some type of petty revenge is pretty funny.
 
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Many of the small displacement passenger car diesels (not the truck diesels) spec a 5w30 oil


Sorry, guess when I read "all spec 5W-30, Non CI4 oils." I should have understood that as the subset of small passenger car diesels which are typically rare in North America. Almost must mean absolutely everything, and all must mean a specific few now.



He's from Australia. One must take a look at the location of the person we are responding to before considering their response "absurd" and going off half-cocked. Small displacement passenger car diesel engines are incredibly popular in places that aren't North America
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
One must take a look at the location of the person we are responding to before considering their response "absurd"


What you speak makes a ton of sense. I hope engineers can pick up on this and follow the same principals.
 
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I'd like to add something.

0W-30 VW 506.01 (low HTHS) is a very expensive to produce but nonetheless a fuel economy oil and it was approved against many previously specd 5W40 diesel engines.

Also showing that if cost is not an issue even a 0W-20 can pass the wear requirements of Pumpe Duse VW engines, is this: http://www.fuchs-oil.com/titan10.html

The same VW engines today are being backspecd to the easier to produce VW 507/504. You can blend this with low sulfur grIII or sulfur free III+ because of the relatively permissive 5W-30/min3.5cP flavor it comes in. Compare this with the ester rich or based 0W formulations above.


Because many European cars do have a DPF, blenders rely more than before on HTHS viscosity than on additives for film strength. If you take viscosity out as well then you rely more than ever on pressure-viscosity coefficient of the base oil. That's when it gets expensive!...not good in the low maintenance race everyone is in these days.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Volkswagen, Ford, Mazda all spec 5W-30, Non CI4 oils.


Remember he's from Saskatchewan. We don't see anything like that except the odd weird import, usually in right hand drive.
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Aside from Mercedes and VW passenger vehicle diesels, just about everything here in diesel specifies (and has specified for many, many years) the latest 15w-40 HDEO along with some 10w-30 HDEOs. Everything else has its own proprietary spec. The only ones that are hard to buy for (aside from those extremely rare imports) are some outdoor power equipment diesels that call for an older diesel spec.
 
Originally Posted By: virginoil

Only difference between 0w-20 and 5w-20 is the OEM oil requirements for your vehicle IMHO.

Other than that its the perception between the ears.


It takes 11-pages to figure this out though
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Originally Posted By: JOD
There's no CAFE in Japan


www.pecj.or.jp/japanese/report/e-report/01M445e.pdf

Nope, but as mentioned previously, other drivers.

Quote:
Demand for oil in Japan amounts to about 250 million kiloliters per year, and about 40% of this
total is consumed as gasoline, light oil or other motor vehicle fuel. About 20% of total CO2
emissions in Japan are produced by the transport sector, and such emissions are increasing
every year. At the Third Session of the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations
Framework Convention on Climate Change (COP3) held in Kyoto in December 1997,
discussions focused on the reduction of CO2emissions. It was agreed that the target for
Japan would be a 6% reduction from the CO2emissions level in 1990. Against this backdrop,
an improvement in fuel consumption of about 20% over the 1995 level by the year 2010 has
become mandatory in the transport sector.


It's a pretty good paper, in any regard, however, none of these schemes seem to take into account the lifetime utilisation of the equipment...especially one that ensures that the vehicle is scrapped early in it's useful life.
 
Originally Posted By: AEHaas
I do not buy it. It is said that there is a savings of Billions of CAFE dollars by getting 0.5 more MPG in a car that already gets 30 MPG. I traded in my 5,000 pound 2004 Ford Expedition that got around 14.5 MPG - for a 2011 extended wheelbase 7,000 pound version. It has the same engine but is now a 6 speed. I also noticed more tuning chambers in the all plastic intake system of the engine.

I am now getting 18.5 MPG and the truck is more powerful and faster. Though I rarely tow anything the truck is frequently full of stuff to load it down.

It seems as though they could save Trillions with better tuning and more efficient transmissions. If it was that important to get better fuel efficiency then why are they spending all their efforts on motor oils. This does not make sense to me, sorry.

aehaas

PS - the EPA ratings went from 12-16 to 16-20 MPG.


Doc Haas has pretty well summarized it in the above post.
 
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