All 4 of my Toyotas have gone 1000 on the factory fill and then got PP at 1,000, 5,000 and every 5,000 after
09 Toyota 3.5L switch to syn?
- Thread starter VenzaTRD
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Does Toyota recommend a 5,000 mile OCI? That seems pretty short to me.
What oil a person uses or recommends is frequently influenced by their economic situation. Someone making $20,000 a year or a student, is not going have the same perspective as someone who makes $200,000 per year.
Mobil 1 is a very good oil, and I would recommend it highly. I used for 11 years on my 1998 Camry V6. It is available at almost any oil change shop or dealer. I have used Mobil 1 at oil change shops and also use it myself now that I change my own oil. If you are changing your own oil, and are on a tight budget, I would recommend the cheapest synthetic you can find (even Walmart SuperTech is quite good). There are some other very good oils such as Pennzoil Platinum that I would not discourage anyone from using.
Even though some "boutique" oils contain very high quality PAO/Ester base stock, they are typically not API Starburst certified, and if you engine is under warranty I would not recommend them.
I would wait about 2500 miles before switching to a synthetic on a new car. You can probably do it sooner without problem if you can't wait.
Mobil 1 is a very good oil, and I would recommend it highly. I used for 11 years on my 1998 Camry V6. It is available at almost any oil change shop or dealer. I have used Mobil 1 at oil change shops and also use it myself now that I change my own oil. If you are changing your own oil, and are on a tight budget, I would recommend the cheapest synthetic you can find (even Walmart SuperTech is quite good). There are some other very good oils such as Pennzoil Platinum that I would not discourage anyone from using.
Even though some "boutique" oils contain very high quality PAO/Ester base stock, they are typically not API Starburst certified, and if you engine is under warranty I would not recommend them.
I would wait about 2500 miles before switching to a synthetic on a new car. You can probably do it sooner without problem if you can't wait.
From what I can tell using sythetic or using conventional is like asking if the glass is half EMPTY or half FULL?? Its all speculation and relative to ones own personal experiences.
"Use conventional and a good filter and do 5K chages and don't worry about it"
"I'd switch at 1000 to M1"
"you're wasting your money on synthetics"...
the list of quotes could go on and on.
My concerns are:
Is M1 better than PP?
or is M1 the same as PP and I'd see no difference in fuel mileage or protection from one to the other?
If i do ONLY 5K mile oil changes and it takes me LONGER than six months to reach 5K miles...will Toyota void my warranty....as they state every 5K OR 6 mons WHICHEVER COMES FIRST!!
I think I will do a 2k oil and filter change and switch to synthetic of my choosing---either M1 or PP
I plan on doing another oil and filter change at 5K with the same kind of oil; and from then on out do 5K oil/filter changes.
I really like having the 5K changes as its so easy to remember when you need to change your oil
So, if I'm going overkill in the beginning...so be it..its my car and my $$$$. Like I said, I don't see how people spend $300,000 on a car...or 2 million for a Ferrari F40.....
Well, why I'm at it...what filter would be best for my Venza..this is my first Toyota. I've been using K&N on my GM SUV and Puralator Pure Ones on everything else--VenzaTRD
"Use conventional and a good filter and do 5K chages and don't worry about it"
"I'd switch at 1000 to M1"
"you're wasting your money on synthetics"...
the list of quotes could go on and on.
My concerns are:
Is M1 better than PP?
or is M1 the same as PP and I'd see no difference in fuel mileage or protection from one to the other?
If i do ONLY 5K mile oil changes and it takes me LONGER than six months to reach 5K miles...will Toyota void my warranty....as they state every 5K OR 6 mons WHICHEVER COMES FIRST!!
I think I will do a 2k oil and filter change and switch to synthetic of my choosing---either M1 or PP
I plan on doing another oil and filter change at 5K with the same kind of oil; and from then on out do 5K oil/filter changes.
I really like having the 5K changes as its so easy to remember when you need to change your oil
So, if I'm going overkill in the beginning...so be it..its my car and my $$$$. Like I said, I don't see how people spend $300,000 on a car...or 2 million for a Ferrari F40.....
Well, why I'm at it...what filter would be best for my Venza..this is my first Toyota. I've been using K&N on my GM SUV and Puralator Pure Ones on everything else--VenzaTRD
Venza,
Sounds to me after you most recent post, that you had your mind
already made up when you first posted and
perhaps you came here just looking for validation of
your choice. I for one, find it quite irritating to be
asked for an opinion only to have the thread become argumentative.
After all, opinions are just that, and there is plenty of lattitude for several of them to be valid.
BTW, you realize that the filter for the Venza is
a cartridge type. Good Luck with your new Toyota, hope you enjoy
it, whatever oil and filter you choose. They are fine automobiles.
SS
Sounds to me after you most recent post, that you had your mind
already made up when you first posted and
perhaps you came here just looking for validation of
your choice. I for one, find it quite irritating to be
asked for an opinion only to have the thread become argumentative.
After all, opinions are just that, and there is plenty of lattitude for several of them to be valid.
BTW, you realize that the filter for the Venza is
a cartridge type. Good Luck with your new Toyota, hope you enjoy
it, whatever oil and filter you choose. They are fine automobiles.
SS
Originally Posted By: VenzaTRD
My concerns are:
Is M1 better than PP?
or is M1 the same as PP and I'd see no difference in fuel mileage or protection from one to the other?
Both of them are very good oils that exceed the manufacturer requirements by a comfortable margin (which is good IMO), and both will keep your engine clean for the life of your vehicle.
But it just so happens that they are not the same. PP is basically a Group III oil with maybe a small amount of Group IV/ V in its additive package. M1 has a substantial Group IV PAO content (amount varies by viscosity, but thought to be anywhere from 30-70% depending on who you ask) along with Group III base oils and a small amount of Group V esters. But it would be hard pressed to say which one will be perform better in a the real world of a consumer vehicle.
M1 currently costs $2.00 more per 5-quart jug at Walmart.
Regarding fuel mileage, the brand is not the biggest differentiator. M1 0W-30 will get better fuel mileage than M1 10W-30.
My concerns are:
Is M1 better than PP?
or is M1 the same as PP and I'd see no difference in fuel mileage or protection from one to the other?
Both of them are very good oils that exceed the manufacturer requirements by a comfortable margin (which is good IMO), and both will keep your engine clean for the life of your vehicle.
But it just so happens that they are not the same. PP is basically a Group III oil with maybe a small amount of Group IV/ V in its additive package. M1 has a substantial Group IV PAO content (amount varies by viscosity, but thought to be anywhere from 30-70% depending on who you ask) along with Group III base oils and a small amount of Group V esters. But it would be hard pressed to say which one will be perform better in a the real world of a consumer vehicle.
M1 currently costs $2.00 more per 5-quart jug at Walmart.
Regarding fuel mileage, the brand is not the biggest differentiator. M1 0W-30 will get better fuel mileage than M1 10W-30.
Slipperysam----I only have my mind made up about one thing---using a synthetic. Also, I'm trying to prevent a "flaming" thread of nothing but arguements. A debate is fine and is productive to get both sides of the topic, but an arguement does nothing but waste time and does nothing for productivity.
I'm NOT an Expert. Let me say that again: I'm NOT and Expert. I came here to learn from you guys. And unless there are Chemists on this site, then none of us are experts. With that said, some may have more knowledge on one topic than another. I have no clue what the difference is between a Group III oil and and Group IV oil. I have narrowed my results down for ME to M1 or PP...but that can change if someone can shed light on a different brand. I mean I can Ebay Royal purple all day long and after shipping it will cost about the price of M1. I don't understand how car manufactuers went from 3K mile changes to 5k mile changes without recommending synthetic. If conventional can go 5k miles and be ok, why didn't they do 5k miles OCIs years ago. Or are we (car manufactuers) on the "gotta save the planet bandwagon" all of a sudden?? Regardless, I want to use a synthetic. And yes, I probably can't tell the difference between whatever I decide to use. But I do want this carto last a long long time and anything I can do in preventive maintence I will do--VenzaTRD
I'm NOT an Expert. Let me say that again: I'm NOT and Expert. I came here to learn from you guys. And unless there are Chemists on this site, then none of us are experts. With that said, some may have more knowledge on one topic than another. I have no clue what the difference is between a Group III oil and and Group IV oil. I have narrowed my results down for ME to M1 or PP...but that can change if someone can shed light on a different brand. I mean I can Ebay Royal purple all day long and after shipping it will cost about the price of M1. I don't understand how car manufactuers went from 3K mile changes to 5k mile changes without recommending synthetic. If conventional can go 5k miles and be ok, why didn't they do 5k miles OCIs years ago. Or are we (car manufactuers) on the "gotta save the planet bandwagon" all of a sudden?? Regardless, I want to use a synthetic. And yes, I probably can't tell the difference between whatever I decide to use. But I do want this carto last a long long time and anything I can do in preventive maintence I will do--VenzaTRD
Longer OCI is possible nowadays simply due to advances in
automotive and lubrication technology over the years.
simply put, the oils are better and the engines don't destroy them as quickly as they used to.
SS
automotive and lubrication technology over the years.
simply put, the oils are better and the engines don't destroy them as quickly as they used to.
SS
"No matter how many posts people read on this forum it is hilarious how many people waste money of synthetic oils and drop them at 5k. Blows me away everytime!
And for Peace of Mind you Say?? You don't even have a friken clue what goes on INSIDE your motor but now all of a sudden your worried about the oil that is inside of it?
EDIT: and DROP the factory fill at 500 Miles!!! Not smart"
----------------
sage advice however
And for Peace of Mind you Say?? You don't even have a friken clue what goes on INSIDE your motor but now all of a sudden your worried about the oil that is inside of it?
EDIT: and DROP the factory fill at 500 Miles!!! Not smart"
----------------
sage advice however
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: VenzaTRD
Slipperysam----I only have my mind made up about one thing---using a synthetic. Also, I'm trying to prevent a "flaming" thread of nothing but arguements. A debate is fine and is productive to get both sides of the topic, but an arguement does nothing but waste time and does nothing for productivity.
I'm NOT an Expert. Let me say that again: I'm NOT and Expert. I came here to learn from you guys. And unless there are Chemists on this site, then none of us are experts. With that said, some may have more knowledge on one topic than another. I have no clue what the difference is between a Group III oil and and Group IV oil. I have narrowed my results down for ME to M1 or PP...but that can change if someone can shed light on a different brand. I mean I can Ebay Royal purple all day long and after shipping it will cost about the price of M1. I don't understand how car manufactuers went from 3K mile changes to 5k mile changes without recommending synthetic. If conventional can go 5k miles and be ok, why didn't they do 5k miles OCIs years ago. Or are we (car manufactuers) on the "gotta save the planet bandwagon" all of a sudden?? Regardless, I want to use a synthetic. And yes, I probably can't tell the difference between whatever I decide to use. But I do want this carto last a long long time and anything I can do in preventive maintence I will do--VenzaTRD
Here's how I see it. Since we will never know the exact chemical composition of ANY oil, for obvious reasons no one will know which oil is the best or which oil is going to make your car last the longest. So basically you're left with the chore of searching the site, looking at UOA's (Which according to some people don't mean much in determining engine wear, or how good an oil really is. They could alert you to other problems though, that is another story). You then base decisions on what you've found, and that decision is yours, based on you searching and asking questions. As far as concrete solid facts, you won't find many, its all based on opinions.
Even the oil experts have opinions. Then we have the thick vs. thin arguments, oh boy another can of worms
. I made my decisions based on reading peoples UOA's and opinions of who I determined to be an expert or in the know. I discard the rest, and opinions of people who defend a brand because they used it for 20 years and it was good in their opinion. I look at ads, and look for factual info not fiction, or hype. Base the decision on your driving type, not someone elses.
Take it for what its worth, remember we pay nothing to be members here.
Slipperysam----I only have my mind made up about one thing---using a synthetic. Also, I'm trying to prevent a "flaming" thread of nothing but arguements. A debate is fine and is productive to get both sides of the topic, but an arguement does nothing but waste time and does nothing for productivity.
I'm NOT an Expert. Let me say that again: I'm NOT and Expert. I came here to learn from you guys. And unless there are Chemists on this site, then none of us are experts. With that said, some may have more knowledge on one topic than another. I have no clue what the difference is between a Group III oil and and Group IV oil. I have narrowed my results down for ME to M1 or PP...but that can change if someone can shed light on a different brand. I mean I can Ebay Royal purple all day long and after shipping it will cost about the price of M1. I don't understand how car manufactuers went from 3K mile changes to 5k mile changes without recommending synthetic. If conventional can go 5k miles and be ok, why didn't they do 5k miles OCIs years ago. Or are we (car manufactuers) on the "gotta save the planet bandwagon" all of a sudden?? Regardless, I want to use a synthetic. And yes, I probably can't tell the difference between whatever I decide to use. But I do want this carto last a long long time and anything I can do in preventive maintence I will do--VenzaTRD
Here's how I see it. Since we will never know the exact chemical composition of ANY oil, for obvious reasons no one will know which oil is the best or which oil is going to make your car last the longest. So basically you're left with the chore of searching the site, looking at UOA's (Which according to some people don't mean much in determining engine wear, or how good an oil really is. They could alert you to other problems though, that is another story). You then base decisions on what you've found, and that decision is yours, based on you searching and asking questions. As far as concrete solid facts, you won't find many, its all based on opinions.
Even the oil experts have opinions. Then we have the thick vs. thin arguments, oh boy another can of worms
Take it for what its worth, remember we pay nothing to be members here.
Originally Posted By: VenzaTRD
Slipperysam----I only have my mind made up about one thing---using a synthetic. Also, I'm trying to prevent a "flaming" thread of nothing but arguements. A debate is fine and is productive to get both sides of the topic, but an arguement does nothing but waste time and does nothing for productivity.
I'm NOT an Expert. Let me say that again: I'm NOT and Expert. I came here to learn from you guys. And unless there are Chemists on this site, then none of us are experts. With that said, some may have more knowledge on one topic than another. I have no clue what the difference is between a Group III oil and and Group IV oil. I have narrowed my results down for ME to M1 or PP...but that can change if someone can shed light on a different brand. I mean I can Ebay Royal purple all day long and after shipping it will cost about the price of M1. I don't understand how car manufactuers went from 3K mile changes to 5k mile changes without recommending synthetic. If conventional can go 5k miles and be ok, why didn't they do 5k miles OCIs years ago. Or are we (car manufactuers) on the "gotta save the planet bandwagon" all of a sudden?? Regardless, I want to use a synthetic. And yes, I probably can't tell the difference between whatever I decide to use. But I do want this carto last a long long time and anything I can do in preventive maintence I will do--VenzaTRD
Actually, they went to 7500 miles more than 25 years ago on a majority of cars, and Mobil 1 was recommending 1 year or 25,000 mile OCI's 30 + years ago. True, after a few years they dropped this 25,000 mile recommendation after a lot of people tried to go 25,000 miles without checking their oil levels and ruined their engines, but I used M1 at one year intervals, which usually amounted to 18,000 to 20,000 miles, from the time M1 came out back in the 70's until I retired in 2001, and never had an oil related engine problem.
I began using regular dino oil after I retired and my yearly mileage dropped to about 6000 miles. Now, however, I find that my yearly mileage is creeping back to about 10,000, and I am consideration to going back to M1, in the high mileage formulation. My present vehicle, a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder, recommends 5W30, 10W30, or 10W40 SL oil, and M1 high mileage is available in all of the weights and is still SL. I really like once a year oil changes.
About Group III and Group IV oils - Group III oils are highly refined regular oil, and Group IV oils are truly synthetic. IMHOP.
Slipperysam----I only have my mind made up about one thing---using a synthetic. Also, I'm trying to prevent a "flaming" thread of nothing but arguements. A debate is fine and is productive to get both sides of the topic, but an arguement does nothing but waste time and does nothing for productivity.
I'm NOT an Expert. Let me say that again: I'm NOT and Expert. I came here to learn from you guys. And unless there are Chemists on this site, then none of us are experts. With that said, some may have more knowledge on one topic than another. I have no clue what the difference is between a Group III oil and and Group IV oil. I have narrowed my results down for ME to M1 or PP...but that can change if someone can shed light on a different brand. I mean I can Ebay Royal purple all day long and after shipping it will cost about the price of M1. I don't understand how car manufactuers went from 3K mile changes to 5k mile changes without recommending synthetic. If conventional can go 5k miles and be ok, why didn't they do 5k miles OCIs years ago. Or are we (car manufactuers) on the "gotta save the planet bandwagon" all of a sudden?? Regardless, I want to use a synthetic. And yes, I probably can't tell the difference between whatever I decide to use. But I do want this carto last a long long time and anything I can do in preventive maintence I will do--VenzaTRD
Actually, they went to 7500 miles more than 25 years ago on a majority of cars, and Mobil 1 was recommending 1 year or 25,000 mile OCI's 30 + years ago. True, after a few years they dropped this 25,000 mile recommendation after a lot of people tried to go 25,000 miles without checking their oil levels and ruined their engines, but I used M1 at one year intervals, which usually amounted to 18,000 to 20,000 miles, from the time M1 came out back in the 70's until I retired in 2001, and never had an oil related engine problem.
I began using regular dino oil after I retired and my yearly mileage dropped to about 6000 miles. Now, however, I find that my yearly mileage is creeping back to about 10,000, and I am consideration to going back to M1, in the high mileage formulation. My present vehicle, a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder, recommends 5W30, 10W30, or 10W40 SL oil, and M1 high mileage is available in all of the weights and is still SL. I really like once a year oil changes.
About Group III and Group IV oils - Group III oils are highly refined regular oil, and Group IV oils are truly synthetic. IMHOP.
...ok.....I'm just going to go ahead and admit it...
I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ A UOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know what I'm looking at....whats suppose to be there and whats not. So I can not make any decision based on a UOA until I am taught how to read it and what makes sense.
Can anyone advise how to read them?
Demarpaint---you hit the nail on the head with your last post!!!---VenzaTRD
I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ A UOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't know what I'm looking at....whats suppose to be there and whats not. So I can not make any decision based on a UOA until I am taught how to read it and what makes sense.
Can anyone advise how to read them?
Demarpaint---you hit the nail on the head with your last post!!!---VenzaTRD
I am no expert on UOA's either. Read the comments from the lab, along with some of the comments from the long time members, you will get to know who is respected on this site in very short order. That is the key to learning to unlock the secrets of the UOA.
Also learn the pro's and con's of UOA's, and don't put too much faith in them. BuickGN stated about a few engines he tore down that had good UOA's and the bearings were toast. I've read other similar comments. They are a tool, that has its limits. They are helpful in determining a trend, helpful in detecting fuel dillution, a coolant leak, and bad air intake system or poor filtration, at least in my opinion. Again my opinion for what it's worth.
Also learn the pro's and con's of UOA's, and don't put too much faith in them. BuickGN stated about a few engines he tore down that had good UOA's and the bearings were toast. I've read other similar comments. They are a tool, that has its limits. They are helpful in determining a trend, helpful in detecting fuel dillution, a coolant leak, and bad air intake system or poor filtration, at least in my opinion. Again my opinion for what it's worth.
I was also thinking guys (don't know if thats safe or not) that it comes down to 3 components--mainly.
Oil----oil filter---and air filter
I believe you could have the best oil made (synthetic or conventional) and a [censored] oil filter and you'd get sub-par results.
I believe that you could have ok oil but have the best filter and have probably par results.
I also think that your air filter plays a role, probably more significant than we want to realize, as if its not filtering the air coming in, there's extra particles of dirt getting into your engine...and if you don't have a good oil filter....well..you know where that goes.
So, I feel it really is a group of 3 components that make up the foundation of a good running/long lasting engine--VenzaTRD
Oil----oil filter---and air filter
I believe you could have the best oil made (synthetic or conventional) and a [censored] oil filter and you'd get sub-par results.
I believe that you could have ok oil but have the best filter and have probably par results.
I also think that your air filter plays a role, probably more significant than we want to realize, as if its not filtering the air coming in, there's extra particles of dirt getting into your engine...and if you don't have a good oil filter....well..you know where that goes.
So, I feel it really is a group of 3 components that make up the foundation of a good running/long lasting engine--VenzaTRD
The $25.00 uoa is a good tool for testing how the oil is holding up and if trending is used can show a problem . If you need syn oil run it, otherwise you are giving your money to some one else. Odds are you engine will outlast your ownership of the car and then some. The Air filter is the most important filter !!!
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