Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
If he doesn't, I do.
Jim, that's very impressive.
I think you've pretty much got things covered.
If he doesn't, I do.
Jim, that's very impressive.
I think you've pretty much got things covered.
02 jeep 2.5/5k Bruceblend 0w-10 5100
- Thread starter Gary Allan
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Gary, so if I understand you correctly, the oil pressure (hot) in the Jeep with various 40wt oils was in the 68 to 78 psi range?
That's 28 + 40 and 28 + 50?
What sort of max' hot oil pressure do you see with the Bruce Blend?
Have you run a 30wt or 20wt in the Jeep? Do you recall the max' hot oil pressure with those oils?
That's 28 + 40 and 28 + 50?
What sort of max' hot oil pressure do you see with the Bruce Blend?
Have you run a 30wt or 20wt in the Jeep? Do you recall the max' hot oil pressure with those oils?
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My pressure limit is around 60psi. While Jeep "spec's" anything up to 75lbs (iirc), that I interpret as stress limits on the distributor drive. The variance from unit to unit ..or rather year to year, can be substatial.
With a 5w-40 it will settle out at (somewhere near, but under) 60lbs and retreat to about 45lb. Very narrow range.
With the 0w-10 it can still reach the just
At highway, they're both about the same. This pump is the same for an engine 50% bigger with 50% more of everything except the timing chain to lube.
The gauge is somewhat more dampened than the one on my wife's. Both gauges get their input from the PCM.
I've run mostly 5w-40 in this engine from a very early age. I did do one bought of 5w-20 for an Auto-Rx double dose treatment to get the moly slug out of it. Hot idle pressures were in the near 40psi+/-.
The 0w-10 was the first oil to dip to this range, and then it's only since I've allowed the coolant temp to drift up to 210+/- with fan setpoints.
I'd like to throw some independent gauges on the thing. The theft of my minivan robbed me of a substantial amount of hardware that took a very long time to accumulate at (for me) substantial cost.
With a 5w-40 it will settle out at (somewhere near, but under) 60lbs and retreat to about 45lb. Very narrow range.
With the 0w-10 it can still reach the just
At highway, they're both about the same. This pump is the same for an engine 50% bigger with 50% more of everything except the timing chain to lube.
The gauge is somewhat more dampened than the one on my wife's. Both gauges get their input from the PCM.
I've run mostly 5w-40 in this engine from a very early age. I did do one bought of 5w-20 for an Auto-Rx double dose treatment to get the moly slug out of it. Hot idle pressures were in the near 40psi+/-.
The 0w-10 was the first oil to dip to this range, and then it's only since I've allowed the coolant temp to drift up to 210+/- with fan setpoints.
I'd like to throw some independent gauges on the thing. The theft of my minivan robbed me of a substantial amount of hardware that took a very long time to accumulate at (for me) substantial cost.
no consumption with 0w-10? niceeeee
Gary, sorry to hear about the minivan theft.
The reason for asking about oil pressure was to indirctly determine the HTHS vis of the Bruce blend 0W-10.
If the hot idle pressure was similar to the the 20wt you ran then the Bruce Blend 0W-10 may indeed have a HTHS vis close to 2.6 cP.
If you have an accurate pressure gauge, an oil temp gauge and a tachometer for reference it makes comparing the actual operating viscosity of different oils quite easy and precise. HTHS vis correlates well with the hot operating viscosity in an engine; kinematic viscosity does not.
So if you know the HTHS of a known oil, that can be you reference. You simply take an oil pressure reading with the engine oil hot (close to 100C or hotter) at close to max rev's.
If one of the reference oils is a 20wt with a HTHS vis of 2.6 cP then you'll know it's oil pressure at the above conditions.
When you try the oil with the unknown HTHS vis under the same parameters, if the oil pressure is the same then so is the HTHS vis. If the oil pressure is lower then so is the HTHS vis. In my experience, a 2.5% drop in pressure equates very approximately to 0.1 cP.
Anyway it give you an idea and it's a lot cheaper than paying a lab for a single HTHS vis test.
The reason for asking about oil pressure was to indirctly determine the HTHS vis of the Bruce blend 0W-10.
If the hot idle pressure was similar to the the 20wt you ran then the Bruce Blend 0W-10 may indeed have a HTHS vis close to 2.6 cP.
If you have an accurate pressure gauge, an oil temp gauge and a tachometer for reference it makes comparing the actual operating viscosity of different oils quite easy and precise. HTHS vis correlates well with the hot operating viscosity in an engine; kinematic viscosity does not.
So if you know the HTHS of a known oil, that can be you reference. You simply take an oil pressure reading with the engine oil hot (close to 100C or hotter) at close to max rev's.
If one of the reference oils is a 20wt with a HTHS vis of 2.6 cP then you'll know it's oil pressure at the above conditions.
When you try the oil with the unknown HTHS vis under the same parameters, if the oil pressure is the same then so is the HTHS vis. If the oil pressure is lower then so is the HTHS vis. In my experience, a 2.5% drop in pressure equates very approximately to 0.1 cP.
Anyway it give you an idea and it's a lot cheaper than paying a lab for a single HTHS vis test.
Really looking forward to seeing the 10k results on this, Gary.
Are you 'seriously' working with Bruce to come up 'something else' to test, or is this just talk?
If you don't think up anything else to test, will you keep running thin oils in this Jeep, as a matter of 'regular course', or would you go back to 40-weights?
Any Amsoil oils you want to test?
Are you 'seriously' working with Bruce to come up 'something else' to test, or is this just talk?
If you don't think up anything else to test, will you keep running thin oils in this Jeep, as a matter of 'regular course', or would you go back to 40-weights?
Any Amsoil oils you want to test?
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(pardon the length here - good coffee
)
Good questions. If Bruce still has interest, and by that I mean thinks he can improve something and wants to tweak it, I'd continue to move on like we are. While a long process, this has been fun for me.
Keep in mind that the market is coming out with their own 0w-10 oil(s), so it's not the novel challenge it once was. Soon anyone with that feels like taking the exam and gets the "test tickles" giggles can do it too. It kinda rained on my self made cooperative parade
"Serious" is a tough term to apply here. While Bruce is seriously applying his skills/knowledge, and I'm seriously bearing any potential liabilities, this has been an interesting and fun "what if?" exercise. I think it was worth the time in the form of "entertainment of higher quality content". It was miles above a home grown project. It had resources not commonly available to just anyone. Of all the stumbling around I have done in my life out of curiosity, this has been one of the more amazing and productive random collision of interests. I'm truly grateful for the associations that have formed.
Any Amsoil product is a non-test for me. They're all good for the long haul if matched up with the right application. They would be telling me mostly what I already know. They would be "demonstrations". For just about anything else (trans/diffs/t-case and my wife's jeep), they're already in use and performing as expected.
If I were to retire to normal habits, I'd probably use something like ACD/HDD to reduce fluid inventory for both jeeps. Outside of this type of activity, I'm a "set it and forget it" kinda guy. It allows me to move on to some other project to allow me to "set it and forget it". I'm basically a dragon slayer. Killed ..dead..never to return ..constructing systems that liberate. Keep in mind that you can expend much thought and toil at getting out of doing stuff. It's often exhausting being lazy.
If I can get the wife to drive my son's 96 NEON, that would be a better platform to test these oils in that it's more typical of a contemporary engine. Getting her to drive a mundane compact is a challenge. I have no trouble getting her to "swap" jeeps. Getting her to sit down at ground level on the highway is another story. She's the one that racks up the mileage.
To keep with the general theme here, it would be fun if Bruce is interested in anything new/radical/oddball. A different base stock, ash free, or play with the new Titanium additives that are available. I've already got a whole new set of creative trademark names for the stuff.
Good questions. If Bruce still has interest, and by that I mean thinks he can improve something and wants to tweak it, I'd continue to move on like we are. While a long process, this has been fun for me.
Keep in mind that the market is coming out with their own 0w-10 oil(s), so it's not the novel challenge it once was. Soon anyone with that feels like taking the exam and gets the "test tickles" giggles can do it too. It kinda rained on my self made cooperative parade
"Serious" is a tough term to apply here. While Bruce is seriously applying his skills/knowledge, and I'm seriously bearing any potential liabilities, this has been an interesting and fun "what if?" exercise. I think it was worth the time in the form of "entertainment of higher quality content". It was miles above a home grown project. It had resources not commonly available to just anyone. Of all the stumbling around I have done in my life out of curiosity, this has been one of the more amazing and productive random collision of interests. I'm truly grateful for the associations that have formed.
Any Amsoil product is a non-test for me. They're all good for the long haul if matched up with the right application. They would be telling me mostly what I already know. They would be "demonstrations". For just about anything else (trans/diffs/t-case and my wife's jeep), they're already in use and performing as expected.
If I were to retire to normal habits, I'd probably use something like ACD/HDD to reduce fluid inventory for both jeeps. Outside of this type of activity, I'm a "set it and forget it" kinda guy. It allows me to move on to some other project to allow me to "set it and forget it". I'm basically a dragon slayer. Killed ..dead..never to return ..constructing systems that liberate. Keep in mind that you can expend much thought and toil at getting out of doing stuff. It's often exhausting being lazy.
If I can get the wife to drive my son's 96 NEON, that would be a better platform to test these oils in that it's more typical of a contemporary engine. Getting her to drive a mundane compact is a challenge. I have no trouble getting her to "swap" jeeps. Getting her to sit down at ground level on the highway is another story. She's the one that racks up the mileage.
To keep with the general theme here, it would be fun if Bruce is interested in anything new/radical/oddball. A different base stock, ash free, or play with the new Titanium additives that are available. I've already got a whole new set of creative trademark names for the stuff.
I guess it's safe to assume you won't be going back to a 40wt in the Jeep when you change out the Bruce Blend?
The cheapest 20wt you can get your hands on should to the trick.
The cheapest 20wt you can get your hands on should to the trick.
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A cheaper 5w-20, but I'll be doing year long OCI's so it will probably be the ACD/HDD oil that I use in the wife's.
Depending on the results, I'd be content to top up for the sample size (it's about 16oz) and continue on. I figured 10k would establish the stuff like TBN, oxidation/nitration, stuff like that. I don't have a date that I put it in service handy, but it's got to be almost a year.
It's seen more severe service than it would have with my wife driving it full time. By severe I mean fuel passed through the engine. She would be getting about 18-20mph, while I averaged about 13-15 over the winter. We had a banging year for decent snow falls.
Depending on the results, I'd be content to top up for the sample size (it's about 16oz) and continue on. I figured 10k would establish the stuff like TBN, oxidation/nitration, stuff like that. I don't have a date that I put it in service handy, but it's got to be almost a year.
It's seen more severe service than it would have with my wife driving it full time. By severe I mean fuel passed through the engine. She would be getting about 18-20mph, while I averaged about 13-15 over the winter. We had a banging year for decent snow falls.
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