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#477247 - 01/18/05 05:15 AM VOA John Deere Plus50
Old Guy Offline

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Ontario Canada
I just received my VOA for my sample of John Deere Plus 50 oil from Blackstone Lab and was very surprised with the test results. I will also note at this time clearly marked on the container are the words "Synthetic base oils along with JD's unique additive system provides superior protection for diesel engines. It lists API CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF/SL,SJ,Allison C-4, and other engine manufacturers. The requirements for my Duramax engine are CH-4
Here are the numbers. Note all other numbers were zero for the other elements not listed here.
This oil is manufactured in Canada for John Deere&Company

Moly 49
Boron 73
Silicon 4
Sodium 1
Calcium 1707
Magnesium 6
Phosphorus 553
Zinc 615
Barium 1

SUS Visc @210F 75.3
Flashpoint 410

0W40 John Deere Plus50-Canada

What was very surprising to me was the following comment.
"This oil has a viscosity that would be normal for a 15W40,10W40,5W40, or 0W40 when measured @210F. But this is not a diesel-use oil. Diesel-use engine oils have zinc, the anti-wear component of the additive group, up to around 1200PPM. This is a gas engine -use oil and we would not suggest using it in your Duramax."

What I'm concerned with here is that I have a product clearly marked as made for diesel engines however it is lacking the required additive package according to Blackstone Lab.
Has anyone ever come across this with any of the other 0W40 brands of oil? Your comments would be appreciated.

[ January 18, 2005, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Old Guy ]

#477248 - 01/18/05 10:16 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
SSDude Offline

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1488
Loc: Los Angeles
This does not look like the other John Deere VOAs that have been posted. This is clearly an issue of the oil being mislabelled.

#477249 - 01/18/05 07:00 PM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
Motorbike Offline

Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 2602
Loc: The Tropics of Antartica
The only thing close I have seen is some Pennzoil jugs with 15w-40 front labeling, SAE 30wt back label .

I would think Blackstone made certain the sample was not swapped so I would not like to be the guy running this in my new bulldozer .

Here a baseline VOA is of some value , ehhh?

BTW, is this oil still a Chevron product ?

#477250 - 01/18/05 09:09 PM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
doitmyself Offline

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 5742
Loc: MI
Oldguy, this warrants further investigation. Do you have the lot number off the original container? You should go to the John Deere web site and e-mail their tech department about this.

Either the lab made a mistake (it does happen) or the product is faulty. It sure raises questions about quality control.

#477251 - 01/19/05 04:31 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
Old Guy Offline

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Ontario Canada
I contacted Blackstone Labs today and spoke with the person that did the analysis on my oil sample. He is absolutely certain a sample swap did not occur and my sample was as tested. A TBN was also done on this sample and it is 13.2 The comment included "the TBN for this oil was quite high, so it may be a synthetic. If you are having no trouble with this fill you may want to leave it in place for a full compliment of miles. It has a lot of active additive (based on the TBN) in it."
I must also add that he was very helpful explaining what makes a good diesel oil,learned alot.
I went to my John Deere dealer to voice my concern about this product. Didn't start out too well, but in the end after a lot of diplomacy I think they now understand why it's in their best interest to have this oil looked at. They have my sample report and will forward it to the appropriate level within the company. They also have the lot numbers on hand and a record of the customers who purchased from that skid lot.
I found out Imperial Oil packages this oil for JD in Canada. He also confirmed it is Chevron in the US.
I'll report if there are any further developements.
Thanks for all your comments!!

#477252 - 03/23/05 02:46 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
Old Guy Offline

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Ontario Canada
Just an update to this oil analysis. I sent a sample from the same batch of oil to another lab for a second opinion of sorts. Curiosity got the better of me. Here is the analysis for the same oil sample. Quite a difference between the numbers I posted above!!!

Iron 2
Tin 1
Aluminum 1
Silicon 6
Boron 130
Sodium 7
Potassium 1
Magnesium 12
Calcium 2700
Phosphorus 1531
Zinc 1779
Molybdenum 99

Water <0.1%
[email protected] cst 79.2
[email protected] cst 14.4
Oxidation 13.00
Nitration 5.00
TBN 9.23

Any comments as to whether these numbers look more in line for this brand of oil?
I noticed it has a bit of Boron in it also, what is the purpose of that additive?

#477253 - 03/23/05 03:46 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
SSDude Offline

Registered: 12/14/03
Posts: 1488
Loc: Los Angeles
This VOA is better. However, it still does not resemble the other John Deere VOA. The other one had more moly and calcium. In addition it lacked boron.

#477254 - 03/23/05 04:07 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
sully Offline

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 204
Loc: Florida
That's quite a difference in additive values. [I dont know]

#477255 - 03/23/05 04:16 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
Steve S Offline

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Old guy thanks for the update,I wonder if the very first voa was also incorrect? Probably this oil is the newest low bid oil?

#477256 - 03/23/05 05:02 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
doitmyself Offline

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 5742
Loc: MI
It still doesn't look quite right to me. Shouldn't the TBN be higher for a HDEO?

I just sent a sample of the 15w40 plus 50 to Butler for a VOA, so look for those results next week.

I am curious how it will compare to DELO 400, since Chevron supposedly makes the JD product.

Thanks Old Man for the update.

[ March 23, 2005, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]

#477257 - 03/23/05 05:16 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
fuel tanker man Offline

Registered: 08/04/04
Posts: 1344
Loc: wytheville, va
Your analysis in mid/late Jan 2005 compares "nicely" with these:

February 2005:;f=11;t=000277;p=1

also February 2005:;f=11;t=000266;p=1

I think it is possible that Blackstone has had an issue in this time frame--these are all three their analyses. Could these three totally different oils all have a "shot" add pack right out of the bottle?

Send the JD oil for another sample and let's see what gives... maybe Butler this time. [Smile]


#477258 - 03/23/05 05:22 AM Re: VOA John Deere Plus50
fuel tanker man Offline

Registered: 08/04/04
Posts: 1344
Loc: wytheville, va

I missed your second VOA... sorry, my bust.

That cinches it for me. It's a Blackstone issue, plain and simple.

Now. Getting Blackstone to admit it might be another matter. [Big Grin]

I think, from what one poster here "let slip," that Blackstone did get a new analysis machine earlier this year. Maybe that's when the three bad VOA's associated with Blackstone got through the cracks.

Don't get me wrong about Blackstone--they are probably as good or better than anyone else you want to name. As mentioned by someone else, mistakes in labs happen--and this seems without question what has happened here.