Title pretty much says it all; anybody out there know why Mobil 1 V-Twin doesn't quality for a JASO MA/MA2 certification?
Mobil 1 V-Twin - why no JASO spec?
- Thread starter Wampahoofus
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There are a few parts to the Jaso MA test
perhaps too many additives = too high ash?
I'm sure its not failing the wet clutch part
The Jaso MA2 test is about reducing additives for catalytic converter life.
m1 v-twin has specs such as api SJ/CF
and a whopping vi of 142 so probably little to no VII's
here is a link that might help you
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil_1_Motorcycle_Oils.aspx
perhaps too many additives = too high ash?
I'm sure its not failing the wet clutch part
The Jaso MA2 test is about reducing additives for catalytic converter life.
m1 v-twin has specs such as api SJ/CF
and a whopping vi of 142 so probably little to no VII's
here is a link that might help you
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil_1_Motorcycle_Oils.aspx
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Originally Posted By: Wampahoofus
Title pretty much says it all; anybody out there know why Mobil 1 V-Twin doesn't quality for a JASO MA/MA2 certification?
Sounds like a perfectly legitimate question for Mobil. Call them and ask. I'd be curious to hear why.
Title pretty much says it all; anybody out there know why Mobil 1 V-Twin doesn't quality for a JASO MA/MA2 certification?
Sounds like a perfectly legitimate question for Mobil. Call them and ask. I'd be curious to hear why.
Maybe they didn't want to pay for it.
Good question.
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Originally Posted By: Chris142
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Its geared for air cooled V twin bikes, more of the models are shared sump than not. If it was not geared for that it would say it offers wet clutch compatibility right on the bottle. I second the idea its just for money since Castrol V Twin sure has the JASO rating.
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Its geared for air cooled V twin bikes, more of the models are shared sump than not. If it was not geared for that it would say it offers wet clutch compatibility right on the bottle. I second the idea its just for money since Castrol V Twin sure has the JASO rating.
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: Chris142
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Its geared for air cooled V twin bikes, more of the models are shared sump than not. If it was not geared for that it would say it offers wet clutch compatibility right on the bottle. I second the idea its just for money since Castrol V Twin sure has the JASO rating.
So it's true...Amsoil owns Mobil!
Originally Posted By: Chris142
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Its geared for air cooled V twin bikes, more of the models are shared sump than not. If it was not geared for that it would say it offers wet clutch compatibility right on the bottle. I second the idea its just for money since Castrol V Twin sure has the JASO rating.
So it's true...Amsoil owns Mobil!
Anecdotally: The Mobil 1 4T Racing 10W40 I've been running for 3 most recent OCI's is JASO-MA and API SJ-thru-SN rated, and probably a recent product (purchased this past spring) shown by the diminished additive package in the UOA on the UOA board. (but it did wear better than average based on staying in grade, insolubles levels and wear metals, on the Blackstone UOA, FWIW.
From the Japan Standards organization point of view: for more recent JASO-MA does the oil manufacturer have to distinguish whether it's an MA1 or MA2 (none of the 10W40 I used spelled it out on the bottles)? Which certifies wet clutch/ shared transmission (and water-cooled^) for the motor oil. Can it be both MA1 & MA2 at the same time? How long has there been a difference in the standard?
As for the 20W50 V-Twin, isn't that formulated for air-cooled, dry-clutch, not-shared transmission format bikes? (such as Harley & some older BMW motors) So would they allow non-rated motorcycle specific oil to have higher FM levels that might cause a wet clutch to slip... So who uses the M1VT in their shared sump bike?
From the Japan Standards organization point of view: for more recent JASO-MA does the oil manufacturer have to distinguish whether it's an MA1 or MA2 (none of the 10W40 I used spelled it out on the bottles)? Which certifies wet clutch/ shared transmission (and water-cooled^) for the motor oil. Can it be both MA1 & MA2 at the same time? How long has there been a difference in the standard?
As for the 20W50 V-Twin, isn't that formulated for air-cooled, dry-clutch, not-shared transmission format bikes? (such as Harley & some older BMW motors) So would they allow non-rated motorcycle specific oil to have higher FM levels that might cause a wet clutch to slip... So who uses the M1VT in their shared sump bike?
I have used mobil vtwin in a shared sump wet clutch, works fine. Ive also ran the old amsoil 20w50 vtwin, but the new stuff was particulary revised formulated for Harleys, viscosity went a little heavier too.
Those who keep saying that Harleys dont have a wet clutch forget a few things.
1. They are wet clutch. They are just not of unit construction. The primary has oil in it unless you run a belt conversion.
2. There is this thing called the VRSC lineup, and its shared sump and wet clutch.
1. They are wet clutch. They are just not of unit construction. The primary has oil in it unless you run a belt conversion.
2. There is this thing called the VRSC lineup, and its shared sump and wet clutch.
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I guess I've only seen harleys with that big wide belt from the engine to the trans. I can't remember seeing one w/o that belt but I don't pay much attn to them
Originally Posted By: Chris142
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
What Harley has a dry clutch.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I guess I've only seen harleys with that big wide belt from the engine to the trans. I can't remember seeing one w/o that belt but I don't pay much attn to them
Other than the AMX days they all have belts. The primary has the clutch and its wet,then it drives the cog to move the belt.
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
What Harley has a dry clutch.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I guess I've only seen harleys with that big wide belt from the engine to the trans. I can't remember seeing one w/o that belt but I don't pay much attn to them
Other than the AMX days they all have belts. The primary has the clutch and its wet,then it drives the cog to move the belt.
Here is the clutch I'm familiar with.I have never seen any other setup here. [img:center]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRSzODccins&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/img]
Harley went to a wet clutch in 1984.5. Before then they had a dry clutch. The oil in a dry clutch is to lube the chain, not put oil on the plates.
http://books.google.com/books?id=woSJ8CF...tch&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=woSJ8CF...tch&f=false
Quote:
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Why would oil be needed in a dry-clutch system?
Quote:
Here is the clutch I'm familiar with.I have never seen any other setup here. [img:center]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRSzODccins&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/img]
This is for an aftermarket system or some of the custom-built bikes, NOT for a factory built HD.
Why do people constantly make statements about a motorcycle they don't own or ever work on?
its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch
Why would oil be needed in a dry-clutch system?
Quote:
Here is the clutch I'm familiar with.I have never seen any other setup here. [img:center]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRSzODccins&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/img]
This is for an aftermarket system or some of the custom-built bikes, NOT for a factory built HD.
Why do people constantly make statements about a motorcycle they don't own or ever work on?
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JASO 4T is the Japanese four-stroke motorcycle engine standard.
JASO MA is the Japanese wet clutch standard. The MA spec was split in half; MA1 is the lower friction half of MA. MA2 is the higher friction half of MA.
www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf
Table 2.1
Would Harley-Davidson use a Japanese oil standard???
JASO MA is the Japanese wet clutch standard. The MA spec was split in half; MA1 is the lower friction half of MA. MA2 is the higher friction half of MA.
www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf
Table 2.1
Would Harley-Davidson use a Japanese oil standard???
They probably figure a cruiser rider willing to settle for poor handling and suspension probably won't notice a poorly performing clutch anyway.
I figured with the 10W40 being an SM rated oil then it would have to have lower levels of ZDDP in order to "preserve catalytic converter life", while the 20W50 stayed with the lower API rating so as to not have to conform to the lower additive levels; especially since they brand it for use with more air cooled V-twin models. So I sent Mobil an email and this was my reply:
The only reason why Mobil1 V-TWIN 20W50 is not formally JASO-MA rated is because we were not willing to reduce the ZDDP levels.
-- Thank you for choosing ExxonMobil products.
If you need further assistance, please contact ExxonMobil at 1-800-ASK-MOBIL
-MJ
Quick and simple response, seems reasonable as well.
The only reason why Mobil1 V-TWIN 20W50 is not formally JASO-MA rated is because we were not willing to reduce the ZDDP levels.
-- Thank you for choosing ExxonMobil products.
If you need further assistance, please contact ExxonMobil at 1-800-ASK-MOBIL
-MJ
Quick and simple response, seems reasonable as well.
The lower zddp levels do not apply to Xw-40 grades.
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