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Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles #3177323
11/03/13 04:41 PM
11/03/13 04:41 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 44
PA, USA
bvl Offline OP
bvl  Offline OP

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 44
PA, USA
UOA 3 below, about as long as I will run it while under warranty (6m/7500mi).

Overall looking just peachy. Lead bit higher, likely a spot. Will continue to trend but I think the TBN is fine at this OCI with this particular VQ. Thank you Pennzoil smile

- b

Code:
OIL             PU5w30		PU5w30		PU5w30
MILES IN USE    7.3K		6.3K    	6K     
MILES           28.8K		21.5k   	15.2K  
SAMPLE TAKEN    10/17/13        04/27/13 	11/16/12  
Makeup QT	1		1	        .5

ALUMINUM        6		8        	8        
CHROMIUM        0		0        	0        
IRON            11		13       	15       
COPPER          8		9       	15       
LEAD            14		4       	5       
TIN             1		0        	5        
MOLYBDENUM      59		65        	64       
NICKEL          0        	0               0
MANGANESE       1		1        	1        
SILVER          0        	0               0
TITANIUM        2		2        	2        
POTASSIUM       3		1        	4       
BORON           44		82        	83       
SILICON         10		7        	10        
SODIUM          4		11       	5      
CALCIUM         2405		2791     	2893     
MAGNESIUM       34		41      	18      
PHOSPHORUS      792		806      	747      
ZINC            883		966     	914     
BARIUM          0		0        	0
     
INSOLUBLES      0.2		0.4      	0.2      
WATER           0		0        	0        
FLASHPOINT F   405		425      	425      
SUS VIS 210F   58.1		57.8     	57.4     
cSt @ 212F     9.69		9.59    	9.48
TBN		3.0		2.8

Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3177327
11/03/13 04:47 PM
11/03/13 04:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,091
USA
NHGUY Offline
NHGUY  Offline

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,091
USA
Very good oil.For sure.

Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3177328
11/03/13 04:49 PM
11/03/13 04:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,555
Plano, TX
dparm Offline
dparm  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,555
Plano, TX
The lead did spike a bit but I'm hesitant to call it a serious problem. Obviously you ran the oil longer.

Next time, get a TAN measurement in addition to TBN.

I think a 6-7k change interval is the sweet spot, so keep doing what you're doing (unless that lead continues to read high, then maybe back the change interval down to 6k).


2017 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3177359
11/03/13 05:39 PM
11/03/13 05:39 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 593
TX - TEXAS
walk23 Offline
walk23  Offline

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 593
TX - TEXAS
The additive package has changed somewhat from earlier fills.


2005 F-150
5w20 PP/ FU XG-2
2013 Nissan 2.5 Altima SL
0W20 PP GTL/ FU7317
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3177374
11/03/13 06:03 PM
11/03/13 06:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,834
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,834
Upstate NY
Yes, lead is a little high. Without the QT of makeup oil, it might have been at 17 or 18. Copper is not high, but slightly more than normal.

I assume no oil cooler?


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3177419
11/03/13 06:50 PM
11/03/13 06:50 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,810
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,810
Indianapolis, IN
Yes - engine is fine; so is lube. The Pb is likely a spike and will settle again.

I would advise against TBN/TAN testing if you have no intent to greatly extend your OCIs; it's just wasted money. But then again, so is PU for 7.5k miles. Or even doing a UOA when you have no plan to use the data to any practical means.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: dnewton3] #3177466
11/03/13 07:36 PM
11/03/13 07:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 329
Late, Great USA
kender Offline
kender  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 329
Late, Great USA
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Yes - engine is fine; so is lube. The Pb is likely a spike and will settle again.

I would advise against TBN/TAN testing if you have no intent to greatly extend your OCIs; it's just wasted money. But then again, so is PU for 7.5k miles. Or even doing a UOA when you have no plan to use the data to any practical means.


The Great OZ has spoken!!! LOL!

He can't extend his OCI's if he wants to keep his warranty. Plus it's his money to "waste".

I'd rather change (waste to you) 4 quarts of oil before it's used up, than risk damaging my engine with ridiculously long OCI's based on a cheap UOA!!!! laugh


GET A LIFE!!
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: Donald] #3177927
11/04/13 09:27 AM
11/04/13 09:27 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 44
PA, USA
bvl Offline OP
bvl  Offline OP

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 44
PA, USA
Originally Posted By: Donald
Yes, lead is a little high. Without the QT of makeup oil, it might have been at 17 or 18. Copper is not high, but slightly more than normal.

I assume no oil cooler?


Correct, stock car, no aftermarket oil cooler as I don't track. I tend to do some decent sized HW commutes in it in between driving some other cars (I have a habit I admit....but think I have just the right amount of cars now smile

I hear folks on the TAN but I am not interested in running 8, 9, 10K+ even if the oil likely can handle it on my application. I do this to try to help save a few quarts of oil in the environment as well as prove without a doubt that Nissan's 3m/3750 recommendation is horse hockey. I am a car geek, just not a hard core oil geek. Lets face it, the money spent on TAN/TBN easily buys 5qt of new Pennzoil/M1 use smile

Past 20 years or so 7500 mi OCI has done very well on all my cars and I'll be sticking to that. Except for the most recent addition to the stable ( 335d...yummy diesel). That one is a whole new ball game with few LL04 oils out there. It will also cause my other cars to get driven less so 6mo OCIs on the Z should not see more then 5K, and the Cayman < 10K annually and the battle wagon 2002 WRX < 7500 annually.

thanks for the comments

- b

Last edited by bvl; 11/04/13 09:28 AM.
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: kender] #3178268
11/04/13 03:04 PM
11/04/13 03:04 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,810
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,810
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: kender
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Yes - engine is fine; so is lube. The Pb is likely a spike and will settle again.

I would advise against TBN/TAN testing if you have no intent to greatly extend your OCIs; it's just wasted money. But then again, so is PU for 7.5k miles. Or even doing a UOA when you have no plan to use the data to any practical means.


The Great OZ has spoken!!! LOL!

He can't extend his OCI's if he wants to keep his warranty. Plus it's his money to "waste".

I'd rather change (waste to you) 4 quarts of oil before it's used up, than risk damaging my engine with ridiculously long OCI's based on a cheap UOA!!!! laugh


For you to say he cannot extend his OCI within warranty is untrue; he most certainly can. But it shifts the burden of proof to him and away from the OEM should a problem arise. Make sure to note that I am being careful to delineate the difference between burden of proof versus legal responsibility. Venturing off the reservation does not automatically assume guilt, but it does shift who has to prove what. Extending one's OCI during warranty does not mean the OEM is relieved of all accountability. What it means is that those who don't follow OEM criteria must be able to prove that their actions were still viable, and the burden is upon them to show data relevant to the cause of failure regarding warranty provisions. Conceptually it would not be much different than using an unlicensed product. Most folks here don't understand warranty provisions and how they relate to the M/M ACT. Find the FTC website and do some solid research. And read up on warranty case law decisions. Then you'll be in a better place to understand how OCIs and warranty interact. This is why I don't advise extended OCIs during warranty; most folks don't have the data or the consistency of approach to be able to take on that prolonged, uphill battle. It's not that it cannot be done; it most certainly can. It just likely would be very difficult to call it "worth it". I speak from experience; I've filed and fought a "lemon law" case through the IN Atty General more than two decades ago. I've tried to keep up on the small changes in case decisions through the years but I'm sure I've missed a few here and there. But it is completely inaccurate to say he "can't" do it; he most certainly can. He just likely is ill-prepared to do it.

And, he can waste money to be happy. I do it, too (mostly firearms, bourbon & cigars, etc). Life would be pretty boring if we had no pleasures to endulge in.

But I don't try to hide or rationalize my waste; I admit it for what it is. Emotional satisfaction is not "wrong", but that does cleanse it from being "waste".

If you'd rather waste oil, that's fine, as long as you can see it for what it is, and not try to justify it with poor reasoning and/or biased mythology.

OTOH - I'd rather make pragmatic decisions in most expenditures, so that I have funds available for life's endulgences. I'll save money with well-reasoned and informed OCIs, so that I can "waste" it on ammo and cigars. Still other folks will "save" money by not smoking or drinking, so they can "waste" money on lubricants. Perspective is a matter of where one stands.

Here's the underlying distinction: When I waste money on fun items or frivolity, I can admit it. I don't try to use rhetoric and hype to make it seem sensible, because it's not. There is nothing "wrong" with paying for PU and a super-duper filter and a UOA and TBN/TAN if you're going to run 7.5k miles in the OEM plan. But that does NOT means it's not wasteful. Do it because you want to; that's fine by any of us. But don't try to push it off as anything but a "want", because data shows there is no "need" for such efforts, nor any tangible reward.


Why is this important? Because not every member here has unlimited funds to throw at lubricants and filters. Some here are poor college students. Others are struggling single-parents. It is unfair and downright bogus to infer that folks "need" synthetics or premium filters, and UOAs with extra costs, for "normal" use.

It's OK to waste. It is not OK to infer waste is essential.

So to bring this full circle, go back and re-read what I said earlier. The engine is OK. The lube is OK. There is waste in PU for 7.5k miles. There is more waste in doing a UOA if OEM OCIs are your plan. There is yet more waste if you're going to double-down and pay $10 for TBN and another $10 for TAN, when you have ZERO intention of extending the OCI. Those are facts. Wanting to waste does not make it less of a waste. It may be pallatable, but it is not prudent.

Now if you'd kindly close the big green curtain behind you on your way out ... I have more myths to slay.

Last edited by dnewton3; 11/04/13 03:08 PM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: dnewton3] #3178289
11/04/13 03:18 PM
11/04/13 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,257
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,257
OH
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
For you to say he cannot extend his OCI within warranty is untrue; he most certainly can. But it shifts the burden of proof to him and away from the OEM should a problem arise. Make sure to note that I am being careful to delineate the difference between burden of proof versus legal responsibility. Venturing off the reservation does not automatically assume guilt, but it does shift who has to prove what.


Since this would be a civil case, neither party would be found guilty in court. All the manufacturer has to do is decline the repair then it's up to the consumer to sue the company. Which would mean hiring counsel, spending a lot of money, and waiting a long length of time for an outcome most likely. Then the company can appeal, which means spending more money on counsel. Technically you may be correct in court but it will cost a lot of time and money. Much better to follow the manufacturers maintenance guide. In other words I don't want to give them any reason to deny my claim. I've had claims honored outside of the warranty because of maintenance records.

Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3178847
11/05/13 06:20 AM
11/05/13 06:20 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,810
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,810
Indianapolis, IN
I was referring to the concept of "wrong"; a poor choice of wording on my part. Your technical ascertation of the term is correct in that case. My apologies. However, I will note that there most certainly can be "guilt" in civil cases, such as those of wrongful death, etc. I would presume that the terminology may be a bit different from state to state, but the concept is sound. "Guilt" can be found in civil cases. But it was a poor choice of words in my example. Sorry.

Doesn't really change my thrust, though. When you deviate from warranty provisions, then it is you who must prove that your actions were not the cause of some failure; you must show that your actions did not cause the issue. Whereas if you follow warranty provisions, it is the OEM that must show they are not at fault.

There must be a direct causal relationship. If you use Amsoil, and extend your OCI, the OEM would find it difficult to blame the lube for a broken cam belt during warranty...
If you use Amsoil, and extend your OCI, and you suffer a cam lobe failure during warranty, then the OEM can initially deny coverage, and it would be up to you/Amsoil to prove that the lube was not at fault. Enter tort claims, lawyers, massive time and money expenditures ... You may "win" the case, but it might take a large effort.

NOTE: I used Amsoil on purose for this example for three reasons:
1 - they make excellent fluids that have a good reputation
2 - they have a well-written warranty policy
3 - they have a good legal team that can support the user against such denials
I will also note that Amsoil will only honor their written warranty if you follow their provisions ... You cannot decide to use SVG gear oil in the engine sump, and expect the OEM or Amsoil to agree to cover you. Unless you can prove in civil court that SVG is a good product to lube your engine ...


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3181472
11/07/13 05:13 PM
11/07/13 05:13 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 175
TX
Ddub Offline
Ddub  Offline

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 175
TX
This is good to see. I am running PU 5W-20 (SN) in my wife's Mazda 6 (2.5L), and the current fill is the first OCI I am stretching out to 7.5K miles. I think I did 6K and 7K prior to this fill, never done a UOA and not sure if I really need one. Looking at other UOAs, it appears your engine is typically harder on oil than mine, and your UOA looks good.

Yes, I realize there is a lot of unscientific extrapolation going on here on my part, but it's still nice to see a similar oil go the distance I am using in an engine that typically beats up oil more so than mine.

Last edited by Ddub; 11/07/13 05:21 PM.

2018 Ford Explorer V6, company car (Valvoline Syn)
2017 Volvo S60 Inscription Platinum (Castrol Edge A5/B5)
2012 Hyundai Sonata Limited (Castrol Edge)
2010 Mazda 6i Touring (Castrol Edge EP)



Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: SatinSilver] #3181638
11/07/13 08:48 PM
11/07/13 08:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,486
New Mexico, USA
jimbrewer Offline
jimbrewer  Offline

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,486
New Mexico, USA
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
For you to say he cannot extend his OCI within warranty is untrue; he most certainly can. But it shifts the burden of proof to him and away from the OEM should a problem arise. Make sure to note that I am being careful to delineate the difference between burden of proof versus legal responsibility. Venturing off the reservation does not automatically assume guilt, but it does shift who has to prove what.


Since this would be a civil case, neither party would be found guilty in court. All the manufacturer has to do is decline the repair then it's up to the consumer to sue the company. Which would mean hiring counsel, spending a lot of money, and waiting a long length of time for an outcome most likely. Then the company can appeal, which means spending more money on counsel. Technically you may be correct in court but it will cost a lot of time and money. Much better to follow the manufacturers maintenance guide. In other words I don't want to give them any reason to deny my claim. I've had claims honored outside of the warranty because of maintenance records.


I'm with you on this one, Satin. Burden of proof is no small matter.

I think it a bit unfair to accuse the poster of waste. Has Mr. Newton considered that the poster might be an oil change hobbyist? Its a hobby like any other. I hear they even have their own web site.

I congratulate the poster on testing at a non-OCD OCI.

Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: jimbrewer] #3182888
11/09/13 11:29 AM
11/09/13 11:29 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 44
PA, USA
bvl Offline OP
bvl  Offline OP

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 44
PA, USA
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer


I think it a bit unfair to accuse the poster of waste. Has Mr. Newton considered that the poster might be an oil change hobbyist? Its a hobby like any other. I hear they even have their own web site.

I congratulate the poster on testing at a non-OCD OCI.


Ding Ding Ding. Its interesting to me. I like the data and should I ever have the misfortune of having to deal with Nissan or a dealer about a warranty repair of the engine (I certainly don't want this), and they try to pull the you didn't change the oil with the Severe schedule fear tactic, I have some science to say look...oil was performing very well with more room to go.

I'm not happy about having to change it every 6 months knowing my spring change will have < 5K on the oil but that is for warranty only. I still use PU year round as its a great oil and consistent. Wasting $10 is fine by me and besides I still have a stronger synthetic for those 7K shifts that actuate the VVT system that appear to be rougher on oils in this engine. smile

Out of warranty, I would have no issue running longer OCIs if it was a high annual mile car. It likely will live its life as a lower mile car post warranty, and I will change the oil once a year. Time is time, and while it likely can go 2 years 10K miles total with no issues...its a year. Its $30. I'm OK with that once a year. Bonding time with the car.

- b

Re: Penn Ultra 5w30 Nissan 370z VQ37VHR 7300 miles [Re: bvl] #3184025
11/10/13 05:52 PM
11/10/13 05:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,867
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,867
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: bvl
Ding Ding Ding. Its interesting to me. I like the data and should I ever have the misfortune of having to deal with Nissan or a dealer about a warranty repair of the engine (I certainly don't want this), and they try to pull the you didn't change the oil with the Severe schedule fear tactic, I have some science to say look...oil was performing very well with more room to go.

I'm sure that's a workable strategy under warranty, and the Nissan/Infiniti severe service rules aren't the strictest out there. In any event, my strategy was different. I used PYB 5w-30 at the severe service interval for my warranty strategy.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
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