Redline 5w30, LS1 Camaro, 5800 miles

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A_Harman

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From Polaris Labs.

Wear Metals
(Element, Virgin, Used)
Fe, 1, 29
Al, 0, 8
Cu, 1, 26
Pb, 0, 4
Sn, 0, 2

Contaminant Metals
Si, 15, 24
Na, 11, 19

Multi-source Metals
Mo, 670, 743
Sb, 0, 6
B, 120, 47

Additive Metals
Mg, 14, 55
Ca, 2469, 2741
P, 1221, 1204
Zn, 1504, 1480

Fuel dilution Soot Water
KV100: 10.5 virgin, 11.6 used
TBN: 8.55 virgin, 2.64 used
Oxidation: 108 virgin, 109 used
Nitration: 8 virgin, 15 used

5800 miles on oil, 191k miles on vehicle

Polaris Comments:
Lube oxidation may be increasing. However, in order to properly evaluate oxidation for synthetic oil, we need to know the Lube Manufacturer, Lube type, and grade. Base number is moderately low. Abrasives are at a minor level. Please provide missing lube type. Please submit a new sample of this fluid for baseline reference.

These comments are totally off-base and ignorant: they put all of the virgin baseline reference data right on the analysis sheet. Apparently the tech didn't bother to check their own numbers when writing his comments.

But anyway, wear metals are OK, and Silicon is low. Viscosity has increased by about 10%, but oxidation and nitration are still low. What else could be causing the viscosity to increase if there is no oxidation?
Fuel dilution is low. TBN is less than 35% of virgin, which is Polaris' trigger for an oil change, but I'm not wanting to dump it after only 5800 miles. The OLM has already signalled for an oil change, which is what prompted the UOA. The only hard running I have done on this load of oil was two track days at Daytona in December. VERY HARD RUNNING. That probably wiped 2000 miles off the oil life in itself.

What do you all think: should I try to extend, or change it now?
 
Last edited:
A_Harman you prefer their 5W30 to their 0W-30 (*Redline's oils?)

I put their 0W-20 oil in my Volvo and it loved it because it was a thin 30...
 
I defer to those more knowledgeable than I on the extend/drain question... but isn't it true that oils with a lot of Group V like Redline typically show a low TBN and that it's not necessarily a sign that its time to change?
 
Yes, I like the higher HTHS of the 5w30 for track use, but it's maybe a little heavy for winter use. I'm thinking a 50/50 blend of RL 0w30 and 5w30. The problem with that idea is my local speed shop doesn't carry the 0w30.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Yes, I like the higher HTHS of the 5w30 for track use, but it's maybe a little heavy for winter use. I'm thinking a 50/50 blend of RL 0w30 and 5w30. The problem with that idea is my local speed shop doesn't carry the 0w30.


Trying to be helpful: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004BOUT0C/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

^^ $11.49 a quart, free shipping, so if you ordered 3 quarts ahead of time the shipping would be free and it would make it.

I have bought god-kn0ws-hoemany of the 0W-20 this way form Redline, and if I ever needed thicker oil (when, i don't know?,) a mix or exclusive 0W-30 would be it. Probably a half and half mix.

41YVZD4CPvL._SY300_.jpg
 
I would be disappointed with that TBN at 5800 on such an expensive product. I would switch to a less expensive brand.
 
As far as TBN goes, Redline is not an oil that you do extended drains with. If you buy Redline, you should already be aware of that.

With the viscosity thickening, i spoke to Dave at Redline and he said "its just the nature of the beast." I guess as contaminants build up in the esters, it causes the oil to thicken.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
I would be disappointed with that TBN at 5800 on such an expensive product. I would switch to a less expensive brand.


I HEAR that too!
 
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Originally Posted By: Doog
I would be disappointed with that TBN at 5800 on such an expensive product. I would switch to a less expensive brand.


I HEAR that too!


I agree too. Especially when people are going 10k on Mobil 1 at $4 something a quart,with less wear metals as well.
 
Last edited:
And don't be super concerned with the wear metals.

They may appear high, but this is pretty typical of ester oils like Redline.

I've been doing some reading lately on the polar nature of esters in oils and how they chelate (grab a hold of) metal ions that may be "hung up in the engine" due to ionic forces....(I tried to put that in non-chemistry terms)....so basically, the Red Line acts like a magnet and it "sucks" all the wear metals out of an engine that wouldn't typically be solution (and therefore picked up on a UOA) in traditional Groups III oils.

I'm guessing this is why most people see big decreases in Iron and Copper and Lead after 2-3 "rinsing" cycles of Red Line before they pull a UOA.

Another trick some people do is dump Red Line in their crankcase, run it for 200 miles, perform a UOA, and then run it 5-7k miles and pull another UOA. This way, after 200 miles, you know the Iron, Copper, and Lead in the oil is almost all certainly for this chelating effect and not from actual engine wear.
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
And don't be super concerned with the wear metals.

They may appear high, but this is pretty typical of ester oils like Redline.

I've been doing some reading lately on the polar nature of esters in oils and how they chelate (grab a hold of) metal ions that may be "hung up in the engine" due to ionic forces....(I tried to put that in non-chemistry terms)....so basically, the Red Line acts like a magnet and it "sucks" all the wear metals out of an engine that wouldn't typically be solution (and therefore picked up on a UOA) in traditional Groups III oils.

I'm guessing this is why most people see big decreases in Iron and Copper and Lead after 2-3 "rinsing" cycles of Red Line before they pull a UOA.

Another trick some people do is dump Red Line in their crankcase, run it for 200 miles, perform a UOA, and then run it 5-7k miles and pull another UOA. This way, after 200 miles, you know the Iron, Copper, and Lead in the oil is almost all certainly for this chelating effect and not from actual engine wear.


I think you explained that very well. I love Redline. (So did the Volvo)
 
Originally Posted By: Phishin
And don't be super concerned with the wear metals.

They may appear high, but this is pretty typical of ester oils like Redline.

I've been doing some reading lately on the polar nature of esters in oils and how they chelate (grab a hold of) metal ions that may be "hung up in the engine" due to ionic forces....(I tried to put that in non-chemistry terms)....so basically, the Red Line acts like a magnet and it "sucks" all the wear metals out of an engine that wouldn't typically be solution (and therefore picked up on a UOA) in traditional Groups III oils.

I'm guessing this is why most people see big decreases in Iron and Copper and Lead after 2-3 "rinsing" cycles of Red Line before they pull a UOA.

Another trick some people do is dump Red Line in their crankcase, run it for 200 miles, perform a UOA, and then run it 5-7k miles and pull another UOA. This way, after 200 miles, you know the Iron, Copper, and Lead in the oil is almost all certainly for this chelating effect and not from actual engine wear.


True. RL would be a great high performance or clean up oil. But it is way out of my budget for a daily driver.
 
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Yes, I like the higher HTHS of the 5w30 for track use, but it's maybe a little heavy for winter use. I'm thinking a 50/50 blend of RL 0w30 and 5w30. The problem with that idea is my local speed shop doesn't carry the 0w30.


Trying to be helpful: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004BOUT0C/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

^^ $11.49 a quart, free shipping, so if you ordered 3 quarts ahead of time the shipping would be free and it would make it.

I have bought god-kn0ws-hoemany of the 0W-20 this way form Redline, and if I ever needed thicker oil (when, i don't know?,) a mix or exclusive 0W-30 would be it. Probably a half and half mix.

41YVZD4CPvL._SY300_.jpg



I know I can order it online. I just rebel against the idea of ordering 3 quarts of motor oil from halfway across the country just to change my oil. (I hope talk like that won't get me banned from BITOG.)
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Yes, I like the higher HTHS of the 5w30 for track use, but it's maybe a little heavy for winter use. I'm thinking a 50/50 blend of RL 0w30 and 5w30. The problem with that idea is my local speed shop doesn't carry the 0w30.


Trying to be helpful: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004BOUT0C/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

^^ $11.49 a quart, free shipping, so if you ordered 3 quarts ahead of time the shipping would be free and it would make it.

I have bought god-kn0ws-hoemany of the 0W-20 this way form Redline, and if I ever needed thicker oil (when, i don't know?,) a mix or exclusive 0W-30 would be it. Probably a half and half mix.

41YVZD4CPvL._SY300_.jpg



I know I can order it online. I just rebel against the idea of ordering 3 quarts of motor oil from halfway across the country just to change my oil. (I hope talk like that won't get me banned from BITOG.)


Nah, you're good
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
I would be disappointed with that TBN at 5800 on such an expensive product. I would switch to a less expensive brand.


I am disappointed in the quick drop of TBN. What I'm looking for is a year-round oil with an HTHS of 3.5 that can give me 10k mile OCI's and stand up to track days without shearing or oxidizing.
 
The 10.5% increase in kinematic viscosity is interesting but what's more important is whether you also saw a corresponding increase in oil pressure over the same OCI?
If you didn't then the HTHSV was unaffected which is what you really want to know anyway.

I've run RL 5W-30 in the past in my track car and the operational viscosity has been very stable (no OP increase or decrease) over an OCI.
 
This run is extremely similar to my recent run with the same oil in my WRX. My run was for 7,250 miles, but I didn't do any track days or auto-x this time. Nearly identical KV100 and oxidation numbers, and very similar Cu number. Does your car have an oil cooler? Fe is higher in your sample, but that seems pretty typical of LSx engines.

I even got the same erroneous comments from OIA/Polaris, word for word.

The TBN limit for ester based oils is a topic of some debate. Check out the links in my thread for more discussion. My UOA is HERE.

As for my take on change frequency, I would follow the OLM and drain it. Redline is not a long-drain oil. If you're looking for a long drain HD oil that can handle track days and a Michigan winter, M1 0w40 would be at the top of my list. Maybe RT6 too, though starting may be a little sluggish on the coldest days with RT6.
 
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