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#2851038 - 12/28/12 11:10 PM Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4632
Loc: Florida
This is not my car. This car belongs to a client who purchased it about 2 years ago. I've been servicing it with conventional oil and telling him to come in for an oil change in 5k but i'd see him in 10k instead. Gave him a lecture while changing the oil and told him that he's going to destroy the engine if this continues. It continued...

An oil change later, he's at it again, running the oil 10k PAST DUE what's written on the window sticker. He originally called me that his engine is making noise and is running rough. I check the dipstick and it's dry. I pull the drain plug and after a few seconds, the THICK syrup started oooozing out. I remove the oil filter to find the housing full of the same thick sludge.

A week later after the oil change he calls me again that the engine noise is back. Pull the dipstick, it's dry. Check the mileage, it's been 300 miles and he's down 2.5qts.

At this point I decide to use some Kreen for an overnight piston soak + added 14oz to the oil. 500 miles later i change the oil and add another 14oz to the oil. About 500 miles later is when i pulled the valve cover to fix a leaking valve cover - spark plug seal and these pictures were taken. Sorry no before pics but based on the after pics, it's not hard to imagine what it looked like before the "Kreener" went in. Lol.

The engine is still burning MASSIVE amounts of oil. I measured roughly 3 quarts in 500 miles. The owner is now deciding whether to rebuilt the engine or sell the car...

Can't say i didn't warn him, right?

I only wish i had before pictures. The engine has 130k on it.








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#2851054 - 12/28/12 11:38 PM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
Jaykim81 Offline


Registered: 08/12/04
Posts: 62
Loc: NY
That QR25DE engine was notorious for the pre cat breaking down. Once the pre cat started to fail, the engine would start to suck in the ceramic dust because of the reversion caused by the valve control system to make it act like an egr system. I would check to see if the catalyst is falling apart in the manifold. You might be able to check it using a scope in the top o2 sensor hole. Once the cat destroys itself the cylinder walls get scored up pretty bad fairly quickly. I believe there was a recall on the earlier models To help remedy the problem, but I don't think it did much to help

Im sure over extending the oil change is also making the problem worse.



Edited by Jaykim81 (12/28/12 11:41 PM)

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#2851055 - 12/28/12 11:40 PM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
FoxS Offline


Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 748
Loc: CA
What oil was he running?

There's perhaps some advantage to using synthetic for those cases when owners are just plain irresponsible.

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#2851056 - 12/28/12 11:42 PM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Jaykim81]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 27018
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Jaykim81
That QR25DE engine was notorious for the pre cat breaking down. Once the pre cat started to fail, the engine would start to suck in the ceramic dust because of the reversion caused by the valve control system to make it act like an egr system. I would check to see if the catalyst is falling apart in the manifold. You might be able to check it using a scope in the top o2 sensor hole. Once the cat destroys itself the cylinder walls get scored up pretty bad fairly quickly. I believe there was a recall on the earlier models To help remedy the problem, but I don't think it did much to help

Im sure over extending the oil change is also making the problem worse.



+1

As a side note it looks like there is/was quite a bit of cleaning going on.
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#2851058 - 12/28/12 11:44 PM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
ABerns Offline


Registered: 08/11/10
Posts: 427
Loc: Iowa
I would have suspected a worse mess from the description given, actually.

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#2851060 - 12/28/12 11:47 PM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
onemig Offline


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 154
Loc: MD
Yup sounds like the cat took a dump. IIRC one of the tell tale sign is dark like almost black engine oil when drained.

Was the oil gritty when rubbed between your fingers?


Edited by onemig (12/28/12 11:51 PM)
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#2851100 - 12/29/12 01:17 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Jaykim81]
Sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 10923
Loc: The Old North State
Originally Posted By: Artem
...... The engine is still burning MASSIVE amounts of oil. I measured roughly 3 quarts in 500 miles. The owner is now deciding whether to rebuilt the engine or sell the car......

Originally Posted By: Jaykim81
That QR25DE engine was notorious for the pre cat breaking down. Once the pre cat started to fail, the engine would start to suck in the ceramic dust because of the reversion caused by the valve control system to make it act like an egr system. I would check to see if the catalyst is falling apart in the manifold. You might be able to check it using a scope in the top o2 sensor hole. Once the cat destroys itself the cylinder walls get scored up pretty bad fairly quickly. I believe there was a recall on the earlier models To help remedy the problem, but I don't think it did much to help

Im sure over extending the oil change is also making the problem worse.

Having personally been one of the many many victims of Nissan's 2.5L engine terminal precat's as documented in the linked thread below, if a defective precat is the issue with the engine, all the cleaning in the world won't make a hill of beans of difference. And the fact that it's burning as much oil as described is a fairly good indication that that's exactly what has occurred and said engine is terminal. Though it would seem to be less common on an 04 2.5L, apparently Nissan still hadn't fixed the issue by then. And for the record, unless the precat had failed by the time of Nissan's bogus recall, all that was done was a free oil change and perhaps an ecm reflash. Nissan knew that the precat issue, unless the vehicle was frequently driven in a spirited manner, wouldn't show till after the warranty period was over. It's slso why so many 02-03 2.5L Sentra SpecV owners did get new engines. As to whether the precat issue was solved at the time though is unknown.

Unfortunately, it does seem that your client has become another victim of Nissan's 2.5L precat scam.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2139188&page=all

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#2851143 - 12/29/12 05:58 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 18154
Loc: Sunny Florida
And yet we still have the Nissan boosters telling us how great they are.

Kreen, by the very nature of it's marketing, is destined to be used in some hopeless causes. This may be a great example!
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#2851163 - 12/29/12 07:20 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 15442
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
From the look of it the product did a lot of cleaning but unfortunately the cylinders are probably scored with the ceramic from the pre cat.
Its common and well known with these engines as others have pointed out.
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#2851165 - 12/29/12 07:25 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Trav]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 27018
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Trav
From the look of it the product did a lot of cleaning but unfortunately the cylinders are probably scored with the ceramic from the pre cat.
Its common and well known with these engines as others have pointed out.


Yea sort of a waste of a nice cleanup job!
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#2851173 - 12/29/12 07:36 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
LineArrayNut Offline


Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 434
Loc: East TN
where's dnewton3 to tell us conventional is ok for long drains and that dumping synthetic at 5K miles is a crime against nature and small kittens in equatorial africa?
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#2851174 - 12/29/12 07:38 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: demarpaint]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 15442
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Actually i am happy he posted the pics. These deposits that look like they are being removed look quite different from the other engine he posted pics of.

These deposits i would be willing to bet would just dissolve with carb cleaner. Meaning Kreen can remove them, the deposits apper to be on the surface of the metal not in it.
The other engine i don't think carb cleaner will touch them as they seem to be in the pores of the metal therefore Kreen probably will not have much effect on them.

Not an excuse just an observation.
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#2851176 - 12/29/12 07:43 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Artem]
Donald Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 18210
Loc: Upstate NY
What years in the Altima was the problem?
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#2851195 - 12/29/12 08:07 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Donald]
Sayjac Offline


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 10923
Loc: The Old North State
Originally Posted By: Donald
What years in the Altima was the problem?

Predominantly 02-03 2.5L Altima and Sentra engines, however it's fairly clear that even at 04 and perhaps beyond the issue had not been completely eliminated. If you read the linked thread in my previous post there's lots of information on Nissan's precat failure scam.

Also, there is at least one thread here on Bitog showing a similar precat issue, with pics iirc, on a on a Maxima or Altima 3.5L engine. Though much less common, apparently is can happen there too.

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#2851205 - 12/29/12 08:26 AM Re: Engine cleaning with Kreen -04' Nissan Altima 2.5L [Re: Donald]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 15442
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
02-04 were the most reported but some later years have been reported also.
Nissan isn't very forthcoming with the info.
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