Recent Topics
Looking at Used 2015 Fusion / Need pricing advice
by Greggy_D
57 minutes 40 seconds ago
ceramic brake pads
by marine65
Today at 04:47 PM
The difference between a scientist and a teamster?
by Ausfahrt
Today at 04:31 PM
rear driveline center spline
by mjoekingz28
Today at 04:27 PM
Fusion Locked Out!
by wolfehunter
Today at 04:25 PM
Discussion about viscosity
by FowVay
Today at 04:18 PM
Clearance oils still at Autozone.
by car51
Today at 04:17 PM
Detroit/Windsor tunnel
by Papa Bear
Today at 04:14 PM
Carquest Red oil filter... just about cried.
by mrsilv04
Today at 03:52 PM
Need Frantz filter sleeves.
by Corelokt
Today at 03:27 PM
Secrets to plumbing a steering bypass filter?
by Corelokt
Today at 03:25 PM
Pumped bypass filter?
by Corelokt
Today at 03:20 PM
GMC 5.3L Low Oil Pressure
by Wingman
Today at 03:02 PM
Cheapest location to buy luxury used car
by CharlieBauer
Today at 02:28 PM
Thermostat Replacement
by RAK
Today at 02:27 PM
Mann vs Fram Ultra?
by FlyPenFly
Today at 02:13 PM
Is it possible to repack belt pulley bearings?
by njohnson
Today at 01:55 PM
Manual/plug maintenance
by Duffyjr
Today at 01:44 PM
Ford recalls 1.6L Turbo GDI - fire danger
by dblshock
Today at 01:38 PM
Any Physical Therapists or Orthopedic's on here?
by LoneRanger
Today at 01:21 PM
Newest Members
starshockey, Jarredm, KovMan, John300ZX, MariaKaras
61021 Registered Users
Who's Online
95 registered (AdRock, 64bawagon, A1O, 2015_PSD, andyd, 2004tdigls, 10 invisible), 2331 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
61021 Members
66 Forums
262995 Topics
4342336 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#2703075 - 08/02/12 04:46 PM Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN
tstep Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 374
Loc: PA
With all the emphasis for resource conserving (understood that 10w-40 is not exactly resource conserving), why would SOPUS 10w-40 class oils get thicker when transition from SM to SN? Was SM perhaps too light w/ observable consequences being reported? Were the SL oils as light as SM, but with higher levels of plating additives? Are the SN formulations are nearly in the 15w-40 range to compensate for lower levels plating metals relying more on film thickness? Couple of comparisons below:

PYB SM ..............PYB SN
KV40 = 96.9 .........KV40 = 104.7
KV100 = 14.0 ........KV100 = 15.5
HTHS = 3.7 ..........HTHS = 3.8
Pour Point = -30 ....Pour Point = -42

Shell Formula has a similar viscosity increase in the 10% range along with the same 10-15 degree lowering of the pour point. Values are nearly identical to PYB. Quaker State however, looks as though they did not change the formuation from SM to SN.

Top
#2703109 - 08/02/12 05:26 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
JRed Offline


Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 1691
Loc: Virginia
It's probably due to the use of higher quality base stocks to meet the requirements of API SN.
_________________________
06 Subaru Impreza WRX - Sold. The only mechanical thing I'll ever love.
07 Toyota Prius - Cheap synthetic and PureOne filters.

Top
#2703111 - 08/02/12 05:28 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8371
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
HTHS is about the same but pour point is improved. It is not that much "thicker" at operating temperature this looks improved overall to me.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
#2703119 - 08/02/12 05:35 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
tstep Offline


Registered: 08/06/11
Posts: 374
Loc: PA
I thought maybe the pour point would be an indicator of a better base. Just seems odd to have a 10% increase in KV and also odd to have Shell follow suit (unless it is the same oil repackaged) when the market trend is toward thinner oils.

But as stated, the HTHS is very similar.


Edited by tstep (08/02/12 05:36 PM)

Top
#2703125 - 08/02/12 05:42 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8371
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
It makes since because of the oils are provided by Shell.
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
#2703357 - 08/02/12 09:31 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 20660
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Where did you find this data sheet? When I look here, I find substantially different numbers for the SN, in line with what you posted for the SM numbers.

Perhaps you have a newer sheet than I do. The SN sheet I linked above is dated November of 2010.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Baldwin B1402
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2703358 - 08/02/12 09:36 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: Garak]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8371
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: Garak
Where did you find this data sheet? When I look here, I find substantially different numbers for the SN, in line with what you posted for the SM numbers.

Perhaps you have a newer sheet than I do. The SN sheet I linked above is dated November of 2010.


http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007054913_201202271120.pdf
_________________________
make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.

Top
#2703569 - 08/03/12 05:31 AM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: dave1251]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 20660
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Thanks for the link. That's definitely a newer sheet than the one I was looking at. The one I was looking at was probably an "edit" where they just changed SM/GF-4 references to SN/GF-5 and left everything else alone. wink

Now, to see if I can find it myself on the Shell site without digging up something ancient again....

Bingo. If I want to find it, I have to set my country to the U.S. If I set it to Canada, I have the choice of SM/GF-4 Pennzoil or the old SN/GF-5 sheet (the one I referenced). If I choose the U.S., I get the old SM/GF-4 sheet or the one you showed me.

It might aid people if they put a reference date in the columns for these products, especially if they're keeping out of date spec sheets online. There are valid reasons for keeping old sheets out there, but it would be nice if there were a way to more easily filter them.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Baldwin B1402
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#2703638 - 08/03/12 07:51 AM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: tstep]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13040
Loc: Chicago, IL
Shell is not consistent with updating spec sheets. This is a bit of a turn off as I look for my next oil to try...
_________________________
2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

Top
#2704134 - 08/03/12 05:32 PM Re: Shell Formula & PYB 10w-40 SM vs SN [Re: dparm]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 20660
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Agreed. It's not bad for me, who just needs something SM/GF-4 or better in a 5w-30. Anyone needing European specifications, like yourself, has a chore on his hands.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe - Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, Baldwin B1402
1984 F-150 4.9L six - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top