5W-20 in a 2013 Mustang GT? Seriously?

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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Sump size and cooler! If the oil temp is under 190F the oil will be as thick as a 30 grade at 210F in your vintage 302. Ford accounted for the 20 with the big sump and cooler. My Mustang Bullitt ran like garbage on 5w30 after my first oil change dumping the 5w20. The Lincoln dealer Derry, NH didnt have any 5w20 at the time - and neither did the local autoparts store. The engin ewas dead silent on the 20. If its noisey on the 20 then you got a bad engine. Now, Asin motors spec'ing 20grade on cars "really" spec for 40 in europe are an issue - even with you sloth like, generally Terrible American driver. Yeah, you
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So you say a 20 is like a 30, but your car "Ran like garbage" on the 30?
Ok...
You are surprised that oil thickness changes with temp? Its all about the sump temp. If the sump doesnt get above 190 then a 30 will have a viscosity similar to a 40 running in a sump above boil temps. Or simply - cold sumps = thick oil. My 2v modular ran like it had molassas in the sump on 30. IDK about bearing area but it must have increased bearing area (or ring pack oil management for thin oils) to drag like that. I recall guys complaing that their 350 mouse ran like a dog after they dumped the type-F tranny oil we broke the engines in with back in the 70s. They did rev quick on the tranny oil vs a 10w40 when tight and new. No failures either in that 2 weeks of tranny oil.

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AFA synthetic being superior - if it spec shows low HTHS it doesnt matter if you run "pathetic" synthetic or so called "Conventional". The HTHS spec will be the high temp (250) sheared viscosity - and, yeah - under 3! Unless you install the right Euro-spec A3/B4 lube or boutique oil - its all "conventional" you are buying in PP or M1. Look at the HTHS! And, Come on now - time to Man Up: conventional lubricants are non-existent - the higher group oils which are now employed in all ILSAC lubes are all, lets call them "pseudo-synthetised". Its just a matter of small degree "improvement" between advertised synthetics and ILSAC GF-5 resource conserving. By spec the ILSAC lubes must SURPASS group iv. If you want to run something superior in the coyote - look for a non ilsac 20 grade with high HTHS above 3. And get ready for 100 dollar oil changes
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

So you know more than Ford Engine Engineers do? LOL


If the engineers are willing to GIVE me the Mustang, then I'll run their 5W-20.
If I'm paying for the car with my own money, I'll be running 10W-30 in it.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Really from my point of view in the 5W-20 grade synthetic vs conventional is where the performance between the two oils is the closest. So I would word the statement something like this. 5W-20 is more robust than one would think. Use it without fear where recommended. Really think about this Mustang is one of the two names that is the flagship for Ford. Do you think Ford would gamble its name on something as simple as motor oil viscosity? If Ford believed throughout their testing 5W-20 would not be sufficient, Ford would just recommend a different viscosity of oil.

That statement pretty much nails it.
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Agreed; Ford is not stupid, did exhaustive testing on this engine with 5W-20, and contrary to "gut feelings" 5W-20 has been around long enough to prove itself, yet "fear" still lingers...


Exactly! Still some people feel a thicker oil is better, everyone is entitled to their opinion. They certainly have the right to use it. Then it if they have an oil related problem during the warranty period, they can explain to Ford why they felt thicker oil was better, if Ford hassles them about the oil. It would make for some good reading and discussion here.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Exactly! Still some people feel a thicker oil is better, everyone is entitled to their opinion. They certainly have the right to use it. Then it if they have an oil related problem during the warranty period, they can explain to Ford why they felt thicker oil was better, if Ford hassles them about the oil. It would make for some good reading and discussion here.


Doesn't anyone find it interesting there have been no reports(at least that I know of) of oil problems by using different grades than recommended? While I would not use 10W-30, I'd not think twice about dumping 5W-30 in the crankcase of this Stang... Warranty? I buy 5W-20 for my mom's Grand Marquis, a receipt is a receipt...
 
Ford has tested the [censored] out of their 5w20 in mutliple engine families and it's performed extremely well. No worries.
 
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Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Exactly! Still some people feel a thicker oil is better, everyone is entitled to their opinion. They certainly have the right to use it. Then it if they have an oil related problem during the warranty period, they can explain to Ford why they felt thicker oil was better, if Ford hassles them about the oil. It would make for some good reading and discussion here.


Doesn't anyone find it interesting there have been no reports(at least that I know of) of oil problems by using different grades than recommended? While I would not use 10W-30, I'd not think twice about dumping 5W-30 in the crankcase of this Stang... Warranty? I buy 5W-20 for my mom's Grand Marquis, a receipt is a receipt...


Then they do a UOA and find it is not their specified oil, also it is people like you cheating the system that cost the legit customers more money.
 
i love how smart some of the people on this fourm are.they are so much smarter than the people that make the engines.wish they could get together and make the perfect one for all of us.oh wait maybe that would not be so good.then we would not need this fourm.
 
Well, my $.02; being in the engineering/manufacturing world as I am, I know from experience that engineering/manufacturing specs are very often compromised by $$ concerns pushed by bean counters. I would be willing to bet that in some board room in FoMoCo HQ, the decision was made, by management caving to bean counters and the bottom line $$, to use 5W20 for CAFE reasons[ big $$ in fines for not meeting stds.], NOT what is absolutely the best for a HO V-8. Now, I am not saying that FoMoCo engineers, tasked with this requirement, did not develop a good 5W20 oil with the oil companies to meet their engine specs, but I bet IF the FoMoCo engineers had their way, without CAFE considerations, a 5W30 or 5W40 oil would have been specified. I mean, is there a reason that the high performance engines from the likes of BMW, Porsche, Corvette, etc, are NOT spec'd for a 20W oil?
 
Originally Posted By: Provi

Then they do a UOA and find it is not their specified oil, also it is people like you cheating the system that cost the legit customers more money.


You can stop the crying & hand wringing, I don't own one and never will...

The ONLY time I've had a vehicle back to a dealer in almost 46 years of ownership has been for recalls, so the poor cheated system customers you mentioned are safe from me...
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
I mean, is there a reason that the high performance engines from the likes of BMW, Porsche, Corvette, etc, are NOT spec'd for a 20W oil?


Fair enough. But as a counterpoint, if BMW, Porsche, and General Motors were pressured/forced to use 5w-20 or 0w-20, is there any reason they'd not be able to continue to produce long lasting, high performance engines?

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
If I'm paying for the car with my own money, I'll be running 10W-30 in it.


1984 called; they want their oil recommendation back. You could at least compromise and go with 5w-30, you know.
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
If I'm paying for the car with my own money, I'll be running 10W-30 in it.


1984 called; they want their oil recommendation back. You could at least compromise and go with 5w-30, you know.
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Ha ha ha
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Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Well, my $.02; being in the engineering/manufacturing world as I am, I know from experience that engineering/manufacturing specs are very often compromised by $$ concerns pushed by bean counters. I would be willing to bet that in some board room in FoMoCo HQ, the decision was made, by management caving to bean counters and the bottom line $$, to use 5W20 for CAFE reasons[ big $$ in fines for not meeting stds.], NOT what is absolutely the best for a HO V-8. Now, I am not saying that FoMoCo engineers, tasked with this requirement, did not develop a good 5W20 oil with the oil companies to meet their engine specs, but I bet IF the FoMoCo engineers had their way, without CAFE considerations, a 5W30 or 5W40 oil would have been specified. I mean, is there a reason that the high performance engines from the likes of BMW, Porsche, Corvette, etc, are NOT spec'd for a 20W oil?


I have something to add also. Ford engineers designed the engine to mitigate any worst case scenario. Also a 5W-50 would help if oil temps got up there. But I would do what I could to ensure the oil temps did not reach that point because at stresses the engine is designed to be operated at the difference between thermal break down between 5W-20 and 5W-50 would be how long? I got a older engine design and I was with my brother-in-law on a Sunday morning off roading in a river bed, and engine oil and transmission temps had to be up there. At one point I try to exit the river bed and completely lost oil pressure, and the engine deactivated it self once I was able to back down to close to level grown.
 
Originally Posted By: abycat
Ha ha ha
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I can say that because I'm running 10w-30 in the old truck right now, albeit my last jug. I wish my dad were still around. He was old school, but next to Merkava, my dad was CATERHAM when it came to oil recommendations.
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To say the least, he did not appreciate my thick oil experiments back in the day.
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Well, my $.02; being in the engineering/manufacturing world as I am, I know from experience that engineering/manufacturing specs are very often compromised by $$ concerns pushed by bean counters. I would be willing to bet that in some board room in FoMoCo HQ, the decision was made, by management caving to bean counters and the bottom line $$, to use 5W20 for CAFE reasons[ big $$ in fines for not meeting stds.], NOT what is absolutely the best for a HO V-8. Now, I am not saying that FoMoCo engineers, tasked with this requirement, did not develop a good 5W20 oil with the oil companies to meet their engine specs, but I bet IF the FoMoCo engineers had their way, without CAFE considerations, a 5W30 or 5W40 oil would have been specified. I mean, is there a reason that the high performance engines from the likes of BMW, Porsche, Corvette, etc, are NOT spec'd for a 20W oil?

A common thick oil advocate lament.
CAFE may have been the motivation to explore more fuel efficient motor oils but that that doesn't in any way mean engine durability has been compromised in any way.

What's the difference between a typical 5W-20 and 5W-30 oil? The later simply has more VIIs, the base oils used have the same viscosity. Over the years there have been a lot of improvements in the performance of specified motor oils including the development of more more shear stable polymer VIIs. The end result is that the operational viscosity of a 20wt oil today at the end of the OCI is the same if not higher that a 5W-30 dino oil of 10 or 15 years ago. The specifying of a 20wt oil by many OEMs is simply recognizing that fact. The spec' oil may be initially lighter but not ultimately.

The oil grade recommended by OEMs also has a lot to do with how the vehicle is expected to be used. Some cars, not all, will have very much higher oil temp's when driven at the very high cruising speeds that can be maintained in Europe, thus necessitating the use of a higher oil grade to compensate for the inevitable viscosity loss and also higher oil consumption.
Can some BMWs and Porsches run on a lower oil grade when driven in a more sedate manner? Absolutely.
 
I would not think twice when using a good synthetic blend or full synthetic 5W20 instead of a conventional 5W30. Look at UOAs for most conventional 5W30 oils. Most of the time they shear down to 5W20 weight after just a 2-3 thousand miles. So, a car running 5W30 conventional is effectively running a 20 grade oil weight most of the time.
 
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
CAFE may have been the motivation to explore more fuel efficient motor oils but that that doesn't in any way mean engine durability has been compromised in any way.

Bingo. Well said.


Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The oil grade recommended by OEMs also has a lot to do with how the vehicle is expected to be used. Some cars, not all, will have very much higher oil temp's when driven at the very high cruising speeds that can be maintained in Europe, thus necessitating the use of a higher oil grade to compensate for the inevitable viscosity loss and also higher oil consumption.
Can some BMWs and Porsches run on a lower oil grade when driven in a more sedate manner? Absolutely.

Also well said.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
CAFE may have been the motivation to explore more fuel efficient motor oils but that that doesn't in any way mean engine durability has been compromised in any way.

Bingo. Well said.


Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The oil grade recommended by OEMs also has a lot to do with how the vehicle is expected to be used. Some cars, not all, will have very much higher oil temp's when driven at the very high cruising speeds that can be maintained in Europe, thus necessitating the use of a higher oil grade to compensate for the inevitable viscosity loss and also higher oil consumption.
Can some BMWs and Porsches run on a lower oil grade when driven in a more sedate manner? Absolutely.

Also well said.



+1.

Just because "CAFE" is the motivating driver behind fuel efficient oils doesn't mean durability is sacrificed.

Just read any of the free Infineum papers on low vis oils. They always talk about the challenges of formulating low vis while maintaining durability. They know durability is important. I doubt Ford wants engine issues from using fuel efficient oils. LOL.
 
There was a link somewhere here awhile back with an excerpt from Ford where they said the move to 5W20 was for fuel economy only.
 
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
There was a link somewhere here awhile back with an excerpt from Ford where they said the move to 5W20 was for fuel economy only.


Does that mean the oil is inferior to, say 5-30? I was using M1 5-20 in 1978 in engines calling for 10-40. My engines performed very well then and my engines perform very well today on 0-20.
 
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