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#249674 - 06/01/06 08:13 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
surfstar Offline


Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5955
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
I'm not familiar with the 1ZZ engines, but I'm thinking they went back to timing chains and that would contribute to shearing vs timing belt driven engines.

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#249675 - 06/01/06 08:19 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
PRND3L Offline


Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 752
Loc: Fla.
correct surfstar, my '04 1ZZ has a chain.

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#249676 - 06/01/06 10:17 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Bill Offline


Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 477
Loc: Auburn Hills, Michigan
I suspect that the Toyota 1.8 liter engines (1ZZ & 2ZZ) in the Corolla's and Matrix, and the Chevrolet Prizms, and Pontiac Vibes may run rich or do shear the oil.
I have run 4 OCIs for more than 11,000 miles, the oil did not thicken during these intervals.

There are threads on BITOG that speak of some engines (Volvo) that run rich (fuel) and possibly thin a host oil or keep a oil from thickening over a long OCI, the 1ZZ may be this type of engine (some more then others).

The 2ZZ engine is newer, and I do not know if this applies to the 2ZZ engine, I have read but do not remember the changes Toyota made to the 1ZZ to make the 2ZZ engine, just a thought.

By the way, these 1.8 liter engines have Timing Chains.

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#249677 - 07/09/06 08:56 AM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Marius Offline


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Midwest
quote:
Originally posted by Bill:
Marius,

Was there a Fuel dilution number given on your UOAs?

I do not see Fuel Dilution shown in your Used Oil Analysis, could there be some fuel dilution going on here?

Bill,

No fuel dilution was indicated in the last two UOAs (Exxon and Havoline), but for the TropArtic oil (during the winter months) the fuel dilution was significant: about 2.5%.

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#249678 - 07/09/06 03:02 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Ray H Offline


Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 4478
Loc: Southern California
Finally - a TropArtic set of UOA figures in which the owner didn't dope it with this or that miracle supplement or in which there was some underlying engine problem skewing the results! ( [HAIL 2 U!] Thank you, thank you, thank you! [HAIL 2 U!] ) Given the 2.5% winter fuel dilution, that TropArtic held up well. I'm on my second run with T/A 10W-30 in my 2.7L Hyundai V6 in southern California (rarely cooler than 40 degrees F.) and will do a UOA through Blackstone at 3,000 miles. I'll probably pop for a TBN on this one, too, since I want to establish a baseline on the oil. (For all you waiting with baited breath, remove your belts and bite down hard on them - I probably won't achieve escape velocity until November or December...) Thanks, again, for sharing your results on these three motor oils in an easy to peruse format.

Note to Kanling: since the TropArtic was GF-4 (identified in parentheses in the "brand" column in Marius' initial post), it was the synthetic blend version.

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#249679 - 07/09/06 05:06 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
goodvibes Offline


Registered: 03/21/04
Posts: 775
Loc: Palatine IL
quote:
Originally posted by Bill:
I suspect that the Toyota 1.8 liter engines (1ZZ & 2ZZ) in the Corolla's and Matrix, and the Chevrolet Prizms, and Pontiac Vibes may run rich or do shear the oil.
I have run 4 OCIs for more than 11,000 miles, the oil did not thicken during these intervals.

There are threads on BITOG that speak of some engines (Volvo) that run rich (fuel) and possibly thin a host oil or keep a oil from thickening over a long OCI, the 1ZZ may be this type of engine (some more then others).

The 2ZZ engine is newer, and I do not know if this applies to the 2ZZ engine, I have read but do not remember the changes Toyota made to the 1ZZ to make the 2ZZ engine, just a thought.

By the way, these 1.8 liter engines have Timing Chains.

2ZZs are even harder on oil and don't share parts with 1ZZs.
I think the WIX is the best looking air filter for this app. Similar material to the OEM but LOTs more surface area and great quality.

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#249680 - 07/09/06 10:14 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
Looks like your driving style requires the 'marketed 3k/3mo OCI'. Stick with it. Those short trips are torture on the oil.

I think that the Matrix/Vibe is pretty heavy for that engine(especially the overweight AWD).

I 2nd the recommendation for Castrol 0w30, or just dope your 5w30 with 1/2-1 quart of 10w40. Also, to justify GC's cost, double your OCI and go a full ~6k miles on the GC and do a comparison UOA.

I've also fit the Motorcraft FL400s on several 1.8L with no problems leaks or issues. Not that your filtration is lacking, but the slight increase in oil capacity should help. And, its an excellent filter for the money!

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#249681 - 07/10/06 04:40 AM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
dodge1 Offline


Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 157
Loc: n.texas
Ray I recently changed my 1st run of 5w30 troparticaround 3k ,it had some darking on the stick but look normal.Think I will run this new batch 4k. My truck runs really smooth on this stuff and is geting good milage. I will look for your report. Marius thanks for the report.

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#249682 - 07/10/06 06:32 AM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Hirev Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 1198
Loc: Oregon
Not a bad report nice to see the comparison without extra oil additives. They do tend to sheer a fair amount. What is the oil capacity on this motor? Got any good guessstimates as to percent of city vs highway miles?

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#249683 - 07/10/06 10:50 AM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
TooSlick Offline


Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 5785
Loc: Dixie
Many of these toyo engines use a chain to drive the first cam and a gear attached to the end of that to drive the second cam. It's this combination that causes the shearing to occur.

The best bet here is a 10w-30 synthetic with a fairly low VI and no polymeric thickeners. The regular Mobil 1, 10w-30 (VI of 147) should hold up well here and will allow you to at least double this interval.

Toyotas leach silicone from the seals/gaskets for a long time. If you're still seeing high Si after 40k miles, I'd be concerned.

Conventional 5w-30's are formulated to rapidly shear down - it helps them meet the "Energy Conserving" requirements of API/SM and GF-4 in engine tests.

TS

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#249684 - 07/10/06 06:43 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Marius Offline


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Midwest
quote:
Originally posted by Hirev:
Not a bad report nice to see the comparison without extra oil additives. They do tend to sheer a fair amount. What is the oil capacity on this motor? Got any good guessstimates as to percent of city vs highway miles?

Hirev, the oil capacity is 3.9 quarts, and during the TropArtic and Exxon OCIs I did mostly city driving.

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#249685 - 07/10/06 06:50 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Marius Offline


Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Midwest
quote:
Originally posted by Ray H:

Note to Kanling: since the TropArtic was GF-4 (identified in parentheses in the "brand" column in Marius' initial post), it was the synthetic blend version.

Yes, the results are for TropArtic synthetic blend.

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#249686 - 07/11/06 07:52 AM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6538
Loc: southeast US
quote:
Originally posted by Bill:
I suspect that the Toyota 1.8 liter engines (1ZZ & 2ZZ) in the Corolla's and Matrix, and the Chevrolet Prizms, and Pontiac Vibes may run rich or do shear the oil.
I have run 4 OCIs for more than 11,000 miles, the oil did not thicken during these intervals.

Not sure about that. I did 5000 miles UOA on 1ZZ-FE in my corolla and dino 10W30 thickened to low 40 range. It was in the ancient era of SL though.
No fuel in oil, but the engine runs rich on startup or brisk acceleration, as expected.

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#249687 - 07/11/06 10:32 PM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
Bill Offline


Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 477
Loc: Auburn Hills, Michigan
Posted by friendly_jacek:

quote:
Not sure about that. I did 5000 miles UOA on 1ZZ-FE in my corolla and dino 10W30 thickened to low 40 range. It was in the ancient era of SL though.
I can see why you say with your UOA,
I did a search for Corolla UOAs with Fuel Dilution and /or Thinning of the oil,
I found many UOAs where there was Fuel and/or the Oil was Thinned out, here are some links:

Corolla UOA

Corolla UOA-2

Corolla UOA-3

There are Vibe UOAs that show Fuel Dilution or the oil thinned out.

Terry Dyson has said that some vehicles do have a natural tendency to thin oil, this is why I lean towards thinking that the Corolla 1ZZ engines will thin a lube more so then thicken.

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#249688 - 07/12/06 07:57 AM Re: Exxon Superflo 5W-30, 2600 mi, Pontiac Vibe (1ZZFE)
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 6538
Loc: southeast US
Bill, look at this UOA (a thread just couple of lines below):

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003600

That oil stayed in grade at 5000+ miles. I guess it depends on oil and driving style.

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