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#2398103 - 10/06/11 11:35 AM GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather
ryan2022 Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Peterborough
Hi guys,

I'm just curious about everyones thoughs on the new GF5 rated oil and its performance in the winter.

I try to keep the families oil buying costs to a minimum, and the deal on Castrol GTX and Formula shell at Costco in Canada is pretty nice.

The cold pour point of GTX is now -39 C, syntec is only 42 C.

I know theres more to cold weather performance that pour points, but would the syntec be that much of an advantage in the odd -25 degree morning we see in Canada? Its twice the price, and wouldnt give us twice the service life.

The cars are a 2000 Honda civic, and a 1999 Honda CRV, and we want these engines to last!

Thanks,

Ryan
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger XL 4 cyl. Quaker State 5w20


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#2398112 - 10/06/11 11:48 AM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
cp3 Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2645
Loc: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Ryan,

I don't think you'll have any problems. I know I've been thinking this same thing. I've only done maybe 6 syn changes between my two cars so I don't think it has really helped them last this long. Lots of cars live long happy lives on conventional. Undoubtably the 0W30 in my cars now will out perform FS or GTX at extremes but I honestly don't think I will be depriving them by going back to conventional. Let's face it, my G6 has had a couple years of cold morning starts on VWB and a couple on GTX before that.

I will add though that it would be nice to see PDSs for FS and GTX with the correct information on them. MRV & CCV would be more relevant to your/our concerns. Castrol only publishes the max numbers and Shell seems to have coppied their FSSyn PDS for FS.


Edited by cp3 (10/06/11 11:53 AM)
Edit Reason: comment added
_________________________
Dodge Charger|Pennzoil Platinum 5w20|Mopar MO-744
Pontiac G6 GT|Mobil 1 0w40|Mobil 1 M1-101

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#2398114 - 10/06/11 11:59 AM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: cp3]
ryan2022 Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Peterborough
Yeah, you're right. A lot of it is splitting hairs.

I wish I knew too, how good the new stuff is in regards to cold weather.

CCV would be nice to know too, you're right.
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger XL 4 cyl. Quaker State 5w20


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#2398119 - 10/06/11 12:06 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13040
Loc: Chicago, IL
Pour point is not very representative of cold weather performance. I would not use that as a basis for selecting an oil in the winter.
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2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

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#2398120 - 10/06/11 12:06 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: dparm]
ryan2022 Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Peterborough
Yeah, thats what Ive heard.

Too bad its hard to find the CCV and MRV


Edited by ryan2022 (10/06/11 12:07 PM)
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger XL 4 cyl. Quaker State 5w20


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#2398123 - 10/06/11 12:10 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
cp3 Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2645
Loc: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
I think I have most of the PDS for both SM & SN PYB, QSGB, VWB & PC. Unfortunately they are at home and the issue with GTX & FS remains. I'll take a look later and post what I have.
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Dodge Charger|Pennzoil Platinum 5w20|Mopar MO-744
Pontiac G6 GT|Mobil 1 0w40|Mobil 1 M1-101

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#2398125 - 10/06/11 12:14 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: cp3]
ryan2022 Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Peterborough
Thanks!

I think Ive found a balance. The place we bought Kendall years ago has their synthetic blend on for $3 a litre which isstill a steal. It'll be the cheapest alternative for the 5 oil changes a year our driveway sees.

Ryan
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger XL 4 cyl. Quaker State 5w20


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#2398248 - 10/06/11 02:08 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
ryan2022 Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Peterborough
Blah,

Their price rose to 4.40 a litre since I bought it last!
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger XL 4 cyl. Quaker State 5w20


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#2398533 - 10/06/11 06:58 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
cp3 Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2645
Loc: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Code:
5W30           CCS     MRV     40C     100C     PP
Pennzoil SM    5800    15900   63.9    10.5     -39  DEC2009
Pennzoil SN    5800    15900   63.9    10.5     -39  NOV2010

PC Supreme SM  4710    10458   61.8    10.5     -42  SEP2009
PC Supreme SN  4760    16780   62.3    10.7     -45  OCT2010

Valvoline SM   5541    22179   63.0    10.78    -36  FEB2009
Valvoline SN   6100    25000   63.0    11.0     -42  DEC2010

QS Peak SM     6100    19100   63.8    10.5     -30  JUL2007
QSAD SN        6100    19100   63.8    10.5     -30  JUN2010
_________________________
Dodge Charger|Pennzoil Platinum 5w20|Mopar MO-744
Pontiac G6 GT|Mobil 1 0w40|Mobil 1 M1-101

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#2398619 - 10/06/11 08:18 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: cp3]
ryan2022 Offline


Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 1428
Loc: Peterborough
Thanks!
_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger XL 4 cyl. Quaker State 5w20


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#2398697 - 10/06/11 09:12 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
Trex101 Offline


Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 292
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Pour Point doesn't show the real picture of cold cranking ability.

For example Amsoil ASL 5w30 has a Pour Point of -51'c while Kendall Fully Syn GT-1 5w30 at -45'c but when compare to CCS@-30'c, Amsoil CCS at 4911cP while Kendall CCS at 4900cP, Kendall will flow faster at -30'c when compare to Amsoil.

Amsoil ASL 5w30
Pour Point -51'c
CCS 4911cP at -30'c
Flash Point 228'c

Kendall GT-1 5w30
Pour Point -45'c
CCS 4900cP at -30'c
Flash Point 235'c

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#2398884 - 10/07/11 02:22 AM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
In our climate MRV and CCS are not that useful since we don't see temp's that cold.
An oil's viscosity index is the best predictor of cold start performance; the higher the better. For a given HTHS viscosity, the oil with the highest VI will be the lightest at temp's at least as low as -15C and likely lower. Of course the lower the HTHSV the better hence the advantage of 20wt oils.

Just so you know, the Honda Brand 0W-20 can be had for under 5 bucks/L on a case of 12 and it would provide vastly better lubrication in you Civic year round and for the winter in the CRV over a 5W-30 dino like GTX. The fuel economy advantage alone should more than erase the slightly higher oil cost.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2399136 - 10/07/11 12:27 PM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: CATERHAM]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 5883
Loc: Hudson, NH
Is there a list somewhere for comparison?
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06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 146k. M1 5w30 FU

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#2399695 - 10/08/11 02:09 AM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: LeakySeals]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
A list comparing what?
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2399705 - 10/08/11 03:55 AM Re: GF5 dino performance vs synthetic in cold weather [Re: ryan2022]
Brent_G Offline


Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 450
Loc: Aberdeen SD
Both those engines are well built and will outlast the body. While many of us BITOGers split hairs over the smallest differences, my dad had ran 15w40 rotella in his 2002 f250 with the 5.4 for over 250k miles. Never plugged in, and it started on many days last winter, many at -30 F and colder. this truck sees 3-5k oci and has had 1 trans change(not a flush, just a pan drop) and a rear diff change at 160k. still runs like brand new. he also has a 2001 f350 with a wrecker bed on back that just rolled 160k on nothing but 10w30 oreileys house brand at 4k intervals, and it runs great, and both those trucks are work trucks that spend 90% of there time with something hooked behind them.

If keeping cost down is your goal go with whatever dino is on sale. At the end of the day your oil choice wont be the reason the cars die as long as you change on time. Use a quality dino and sleep good smile
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05 Grand Prix GTP
01 Ford F150
06 Yamaha R1
69 Roadrunner 528 Hemi
68 Dart GTS 512
71 Superbee's 440 and 383
87 Camaro 540 BBC

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