UPDATE: 10W30 Experiement in 5.4L VVT

[Jim Allen]

Scratching at 2K miles on this experiment with Motorcraft 10W30 Super Duty HDEO in my '05 F150 5.4L V8 modular and I thought I'd fill in with a late report.

VVT Operation: I have been spot checking VVT operation via datalogging since the initial testing and it's still working virtually the same as it did with the RP 5W20. Not unexpected. Winter will be the test.

Oil Temps: Definitely higher. I was on a long trip over the past few days. It's about 95F and humid. Running down the freeway @ 70 mph (empty), I was averaging 213F EOT. Saw 216F a couple of times (FYI (about 210 was the highest I had ever previously seen on the RP 5W20) Under identical circumstances, the RP 5W20 ran about 200F or slightly under. Basically I am seeing a 5-6% increase in oil temp at any given condition. I don't know if this is due to the increase in viscosity or the change from a PAO synthetic base to a mineral. Perhaps both. It really isn't an issue but worth noting intrinsically.

Oil Pressure: Within about 1000 miles the oil underwent it's initial shearing and stabilized at the pressure it's running now. It's running very close to the new "sheared" RP, which was a fairly thick grade 20 (8.7 cST @ 100C) at 60 mph but holding at a higher idle pressure. I would expect the percentages of change idle vs 60 mph, to remain more linear. FYI: Engine now has a P1 filter vs a RP but I can't think of any reason that would have much bearing on anything.

26 psi @ 190F EOT w/ new 5W20 RP
25 psi @ 188F EOT w/ 10K 5W20 RP
33 psi @ 189F EOT w/ new 10W30 MC
32 psi @ 190F EOT w 1.5K 10w30 MC
31-32 psi @ 212 EOT w/ 1.5K 10W30 MC

Oil Pressure @ 60 MPH (1800rpm)-
63 psi @ 192F EOT w/new 5W20 RP
59 psi @ 198F EOT w/10K 5W20 RP
67 psi @ 189F EOT w/new 10W30 RP
64 psi @ 190F EOT w/1.5K 10W30 MC
63 psi @ 212F EOT w/1.5K 10W30 MC

Noise: Engine remains significantly quieter. I always thought my engine was quit for a modular, but it's quieter yet.

MPG: No significant change that I can pull out of the normal inaccuracies of checking fuel economy. My computer mpg readouts, which are always higher than the the miles/gallons calculations, are consistent at least and I don't really see any changes of note there either. Trending very slightly down is the best I can see but it's by a tiny amount.

 

[addyguy]

I find the oil temps results the most interesting.

I know it is said that thicker oils run hotter, I just didn't think it would show up THAT much with a comparo of a 20 and 30 weight - I thought the difference showed up in a 40 or 50 weight vs. a 20-weight.

I think this is important information to share with the 'thicker in warm weather crowd' - those that go with a 10W-30 over a 5W-20 sometimes - might have proof now that this is a bad idea, as you want your engine running as cool as possible in warm weather.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Thanks for sharing the data. Once old man winter arrives I will be waiting for another report.

This weekend I switched our Navigator over to a 10w30 HDEO. I had 4 gallons on the shelf, and thought "why not". I can't comment on oil pressure or temperature, but the engine is definitely quieter when cold. I expect the gas mileage to remain the same, i.e. 'BAD'.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Great data, nice to see. I just did the small step up to 5w-30 ILSAC GF-5 oil in my new 2.3 truck as it was very VERY noisy. Jims step to the HDEO I suspect is much larger than 2 cst at at temp. I was comncerned as the Ranger xL is a stick car with a 4qt sump PLUS I hit 12 lights one way on my 25 mile commute one way daily. HArd on the crank thrust bearings. I could feel the plate pushing the crank around when the car was hot, not so with the 30 grade. Would really like to have run another sump of 5w-20 MC-SS through break-in, but Summer is here. Back to 5w-20 in the Fall through the end of Spring.

 

[tig1]

Also full synthetic oils are supposed to keep oil temps cooler.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Also full synthetic oils are supposed to keep oil temps cooler.


Right. Could be... not a big difference in temps, but noticeable.

But we're talking oil temps, what about correlating that with coolant temps for a comparison. The fact that heat is transferring to the oil efficiently could be a good thing. Just like awful looking UOAs having explanations for how un-awful they are

 

[ltslimjim]

How's this, the OP switch to a conventional 5w-20(Val, Pennz etc) next and compare things again.

 

[Unleashedbeast]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
I think this is important information to share with the 'thicker in warm weather crowd' - those that go with a 10W-30 over a 5W-20 sometimes - might have proof now that this is a bad idea, as you want your engine running as cool as possible in warm weather.


The temperature results would not have been as dramatic had the OP switched to a 100% PAO 30 grade, and not a petroleum based lubricant. Can't compare apples to oranges.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: webfors

But we're talking oil temps, what about correlating that with coolant temps for a comparison.


I have that info. For the 190F (ish) oil temps, ECT is about the same, say 190-192. For the 212-213 EOTs, coolant temp is 197 to about 205F. ECT fluctuates a lot within about 10 degrees or so. EOT is more stable and changes more slowly. It's all load or ambient temp related anyway. It's been in the mid '90s (and muggy as all get-out) here in NW Ohio, eastern Indiana where I've been schlepping around.

The suggestion to switch back to a 5W20 is a good one... but I'm too tight to do it ( : < ). I was prepared to dump the 10W30 if it interfered with VCT operation but since it doesn't appear to have, I'm not going to sweat a few percent increase in EOT over this 7.5K run. It's just interesting to note.

I suppose I could eliminate the synthetic aspect by installing a 10W30 syn with kinematic viscosity similar to the MC. If it stayed on the hot side, then I'd know it was the viscosity. My guess is that it's a little of both. In any case, I have been stockpiling Rotella T5 semi-syn, so when I thru with this MC by sometime next year, that's what's going in next and it will be interesting to see if it results in any change (even though it's a Gp III/GpII+ mix and not a PAO).

I've been keeping EOT and ECT records for several years now, so I have a pretty good handle on what happens with this engine in different circumstances. If you go back thru my posts, you can see a pic of my gauge setup (my name is Jim and I'm a gauge-o-haulic ( ; < ). I datalog during these experimental changes too and keep track of stuff that way.

Anyway, glad to see there are a few other people who share these "oil nerd" interests ( : < )!

 

[A_Harman]

You could further enhance your oil nerdliness by taking the temperature data and oil viscosities from PDS's and plugging it all into a viscosity calculator (i.e.: widman.biz) to find out what the actual viscosities are while you are running down the road. Even though the 10w30 is running hotter, I bet it still has higher viscosity in operation.

 

[mechtech2]

The engine remains significantly quieter?

So it is quieter, or remains quiet?

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
You could further enhance your oil nerdliness by taking the temperature data and oil viscosities from PDS's and plugging it all into a viscosity calculator (i.e.: widman.biz) to find out what the actual viscosities are while you are running down the road. Even though the 10w30 is running hotter, I bet it still has higher viscosity in operation.


Way ahead of you! Have done that and have a cheat sheet in the truck. Something nerdy to do on long trips! And, yeah, it is thicker at any temp... which is both good and bad. Fortunately, I don't short hop... my usual run is 20 plus miles, more than enough to get the engine to full temp

Mechtech: Wisenheimer! ( : < ). It was pretty quiet for a modular but the 10W30 made it significantly quieter. I'm not bothered much by noises I can interpret as normal but that ever-present modular phaser noise from the front of the engine is virtually gone.

 

[A_Harman]

Uh-oh, you're farther gone than I suspected.

 

[modularv8]

Great info Jim!

I have read your postings before on this experiment, but it didn't strike me till today that the MC 10w30 you were running really is like a 40 wt in this engine.

40C 80 cSt
100C 12 cSt
HTHS 3.6 cP

Data from Conoco Philips/ Motorcraft.

So essentially, you have recorded the effects of a 40 wt in the 5.4L 3v engine.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
you can see a pic of my gauge setup (my name is Jim and I'm a gauge-o-haulic ( ; < ).

WOW!!!! That is freakin awesome!!

Very cool stuff Jim. Thanx

 

[dave1251]

Yeah I thought I was geeked out in my F150 until I saw the pictures Jim Allen has posted. He is da man.

 

[mechtech2]

Oil temps generally go up with thicker oil. More drag , and a thicker film to inhibit the transfer of heat our of the engine.

In this hot summer, no VVT ssytem will have problems when starting out or at running temps.
It is starting out in the dead of winter with a 10-40 or thicker oil that problems can happen.

 

[TFB1]

Hotter engines are more efficient, at least to 240*F or so, looks like a win/win to me...

 

[ABerns]

I am drooling over the setup, man!

As others have chimed in, keep us posted throughout the summer/fall/winter time. I'm very interested to see how the VVT behaves as temps peak and then begin to fall for you.

 

[modularv8]

Originally Posted By: ABerns
I am drooling over the setup, man!

As others have chimed in, keep us posted throughout the summer/fall/winter time. I'm very interested to see how the VVT behaves as temps peak and then begin to fall for you.


I believe Jim started his experiment more than a year ago (posted this thread, July 2011), so he should already have some data on how the VCT operates in cold weather temperatures.