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#1924369 - 06/16/10 01:08 AM Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40
Hemi426 Offline


Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 754
Loc: PA
Does anybody know if this oil is a group 3 or group 4 base stock? I really like this oil. It gives me a little more oil pressure for summer temps. My 4.7 runs just as smooth and peppy as it did on 10w-30. I've tried 15w-40 in the past and the engine felt sluggish.

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#1924372 - 06/16/10 01:18 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: Hemi426]
sangyup81 Offline


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 1649
Loc: Bowie, MD
3

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#1924384 - 06/16/10 01:49 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: sangyup81]
zloveraz Offline


Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 860
Loc: Frisco, TX
Base stock is a Group III with some PAO in it.
_________________________
11 G37S, QSUD, microGreen MG101-7
14 BMW F800GS Adventure

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#1924432 - 06/16/10 05:21 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: zloveraz]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3037
Loc: Indiana
It's a group III+.
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T

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#1924661 - 06/16/10 10:56 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: BobFout]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 6414
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: BobFout
It's a group III+.


I don't really know what that means, as opposed to any other designation, and I've been around here a long time.

To say that it's "group III+", would infer that it's somehow "better" than group III? Would someone say that Mobil 1 is "Group IV-" (minus) because it has some marginal amount of base oils other than PAO?

Nearly all lubricants available commercially on the mass market are "blends". They are not "pure", but rather a maturation of primary and secondary base stocks, with differing additives packages, all based upon the consumer and/or vendor goals.

T-6 is a group III product; severely hydro processed oil. It's got quite a bit of VII to get such a broad grade range. I do know that it performs quite well, typically putting forth stellar UOAs. I'm not confident whether it has PAO in it or not; but I don't really know that it matters, either. I guess knowing the "inputs" of an oil makes for interesting chatter, but the "results" are MUCH more telling of a product's capability. Would you rather know the starting roster of a base-ball team, or the final score?

It's not "perfect", but no oil is. It's a good fit for a wide variety of applications and has a good performance/dollar ratio. It is primarily thought of as group III.


Edited by dnewton3 (06/16/10 11:03 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#1924668 - 06/16/10 11:01 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: dnewton3]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3037
Loc: Indiana
Dnewton, the Evolution section here explains it.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends

Googling for group III+ also nets some more info.


Edited by BobFout (06/16/10 11:03 AM)
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T

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#1925736 - 06/17/10 10:20 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: BobFout]
hustler Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 82
Loc: Dallas
Here is 5-hours of track time on my turbo miata with 250* oil temps on Rotella T6 Synth

Forget the base-stock designation, this oil works.
_________________________
250whp turbo Miata track toy/Ferrari substitute
5w40 Rotella Synth
AMSoil MTG
M1 75w90
ATE Blue/200

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#1925755 - 06/17/10 10:39 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: BobFout]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 6414
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Dnewton, the Evolution section here explains it.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends

Googling for group III+ also nets some more info.


My apologies; wasn't trying to pick on you; not my intent.

It's just that, like I said, there is no "pure" oil; they all exist with some secondary base stocks and varying additive packages. No one ever dares to refer to Mobil 1 as a "Group IV-" just because it has some lower base stocks in it to help carry the additives. Mobil 1 is not PURE PAO, but we all consider it group IV. It's a manipulated oil product just like T6, Edge, Synpower, and everything else.

Is a group III+ the "same" as a group IV-? We've heard of group II+, but would that be much different than a group III-? Are we splitting hairs so thin? Are we even concerned about the percentage of each base stock used? What makes something a "PAO" when it may have 51% group IV, but if it only had 48% group IV, what would it then be called?

Conceptually, it's like debating the merrits of a "C+" versus a "B-". The distinction is there, but it's so whacked and overblown because the you also have to include the sub-topics to give it frame of reference.

The reality is that marketing folks will never want well defined descriptions with % content on their product labeling; that would make it too easy to know what you're buying ...

I makes litte sense to keep sub-dividing the subdivisions ... Perhaps it's time for the lube industry to redefine the entire class description system.


Edited by dnewton3 (06/17/10 10:48 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#1926172 - 06/17/10 05:59 PM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: dnewton3]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3037
Loc: Indiana
I didn't take it as a picking, just an honest question. I too had never heard of III+ until I saw Johnny post about it regarding RTS and/or T6, sometime last year.
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T

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#1926535 - 06/18/10 05:11 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: BobFout]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 6414
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Well, you certainly have educated me on a new topic. Thanks!

OTOH, I still don't like the way products are sub-labeled. It is ambiguous at best. But I also understand that I'm not the only person they market to.



Edited by dnewton3 (06/18/10 05:12 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#1926550 - 06/18/10 05:43 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: dnewton3]
Mokanic Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Did anyone catch the statement about how all major oil companies are rapidly switching their automotive oils to these groupIII base oils? That would include I suppose EOM who is the producer of M1.

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#1926641 - 06/18/10 07:52 AM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: Mokanic]
D-Roc Offline


Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 1528
Loc: Le coeur du pays sÚparatiste.
Hey Hustler, any ideas on that 1.8% fuel dilution? I thought your vis was low for a moment, but I'm sure your Miata doesn't have a large sump, so 1.8% of gasoline would probably bring you down to 30wt...

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#1927102 - 06/18/10 03:57 PM Re: Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 [Re: D-Roc]
hustler Offline


Registered: 10/04/08
Posts: 82
Loc: Dallas
Originally Posted By: D-Roc
Hey Hustler, any ideas on that 1.8% fuel dilution? I thought your vis was low for a moment, but I'm sure your Miata doesn't have a large sump, so 1.8% of gasoline would probably bring you down to 30wt...

You are correct. I hold about 5-quarts. The oil dropped to about a30wt. I leaned it out a lot in cold start and fuel dilution reduced considerably.
_________________________
250whp turbo Miata track toy/Ferrari substitute
5w40 Rotella Synth
AMSoil MTG
M1 75w90
ATE Blue/200

Top