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#1878351 - 05/02/10 12:52 PM JASO MA-2
Pako Offline


Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 2
Loc: campeche, mexico
I am seeing MA-2 on oil labels. I am familiar with MA, But just what is MA-2?

thank you

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#1878356 - 05/02/10 12:59 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
SaturnIonVue Offline


Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 663
Loc: New Jersey
This may tell you what that is: http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=83732

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#1879287 - 05/03/10 11:29 AM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: SaturnIonVue]
Pako Offline


Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 2
Loc: campeche, mexico
Thanks for your reply Saturn. The link was spot on!

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#1881956 - 05/05/10 08:36 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
Hitzy Offline


Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 328
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
I don't know if I agree with the entire post over there....
Quote:
Note that JASO-MA2 can now be API SJ formulated, but API SL & API SM formulations still directly contradict JASO-MA/MA1/MA2 standards because of the use of friction modifiers that are not wet-clutch compatible.


Unless I'm missing something, he says you can't have SL/SM and JASO MA approval at the same time. Rotella T6 has both:
http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-e.../rotella_t6.pdf

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#1883127 - 05/07/10 12:00 AM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Hitzy]
mjoekingz28 Offline


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3887
Loc: United States of America
yeah, uh, I read the post and its not sinking in.

It WAS so simple.....JASO MA = good in moto

Now, uh... Jaso MA2 = high friction = good for bikes

JASO MA1 is low friction and is good for catatlytic converters.

So what to do, mix MA1 and MA2 in equal amounts to please both the emissions and the clutch?
_________________________
ĄJust Say No! to V6 engines

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#1883244 - 05/07/10 06:19 AM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: mjoekingz28]
Ken2 Offline


Registered: 12/02/02
Posts: 6380
Loc: Washington St.
From the link:
Quote:
API SL & API SM formulations still directly contradict JASO-MA/MA1/MA2 standards because of the use of friction modifiers

He's wrong about the SL & SM specs and friction modifiers. If the oils are ILSAC GF-3 or GF-4 or the near-future GF-5, yes they contain friction modifiers. API's SL, SM, and new SN permit friction modifiers but do not require them.

Anyway, do we know of anyone who has had clutch failure using friction-modified oil? Myself and many of others run Schaeffer oils with their big slug of "Micron Moly" and Schaeffer's super-secret Penetro "These two proven frictional modifiers once plated form a long lasting slippery tenacious lubricant film...." and no reports of wet clutch failures in my bikes or dozens of Gold Wing riders my rep sells to, etc.
_________________________
Every gun that is made, every warship launched..a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Gen. Eisenhower


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#2531767 - 02/10/12 01:37 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
widman Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 3271
Loc: Bolivia
According to my Lubrizol presentation, the MA2 oils are "SM, SL, or SJ core" oils with different friction modifiers and a lot of wet clutch and other tests.

They show different results when the different "core" oils are used in blending, with the SM giving 2 to 3 times the benefits of the SJ in most tests and twice the level when blended with the SL "core".
_________________________
Richard's Car Restorations

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#2531786 - 02/10/12 01:52 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 34600
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Pako
I am seeing MA-2 on oil labels. I am familiar with MA, But just what is MA-2?

thank you

This document may be of some help:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#2531799 - 02/10/12 02:00 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Ken2]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 34600
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Ken2
He's wrong about the SL & SM specs and friction modifiers. If the oils are ILSAC GF-3 or GF-4 or the near-future GF-5, yes they contain friction modifiers. API's SL, SM, and new SN permit friction modifiers but do not require them.

Agreed. Just because an oil is rated API SM/SN, does not automatically mean it is energy conserving and has a ton of friction modifiers. In addition, API SM/SN has introduced different add pack limits on various grades, so while Xw-30 grades have been severely limited, Xw-40 and Xw-50 grades have not. And I don't recall off the top of my head any JASO MA oils in Xw-30 grade.
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#2534299 - 02/12/12 06:54 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 6170
Loc: North Coast
Originally Posted By: Pako
I am seeing MA-2 on oil labels. I am familiar with MA, But just what is MA-2?

thank you


It is the sequel to Jaso MA grin
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer... well except for just now..Coffee2

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#2535101 - 02/13/12 02:19 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Doog]
moontan Offline


Registered: 02/21/04
Posts: 96
Loc: So. Cal.
it seems the sm/sl jaso ma2 oil has less phosphorus and sulfated ash which is supposedly damaging to a catalyst which most motorcycles come equipped with since 2007 or so..and that sequel is even more spendy


Edited by moontan (02/13/12 02:21 PM)

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#2538388 - 02/16/12 08:37 AM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 2082
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
I've noticed the ma-2 designation on oils for snowmobiles. I don't believe they have cats on them as they are off road vehicles.,,

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#2539931 - 02/17/12 04:21 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: BigCahuna]
Doog Offline


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 6170
Loc: North Coast
I just checked my new Castrol Power RS R4 4T 10w50 and it is SL, JASO MA2. This oil is specifically speced for my 2011 Triumph so I doubt it will hurt the CAT.

Just don't forget it is liquid engineering.... crackmeup


Edited by Doog (02/17/12 04:22 PM)
_________________________
The difference between a beer and your opinion is that I asked for a beer... well except for just now..Coffee2

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#2543485 - 02/21/12 04:52 AM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2597
Loc: Southeastern USA
Did you guys read that pdf at the link that Quattro Pete posted? It's a excellent description of the motorcycle specs. It doesn't precisely describe how they test for static and dynamic friction but otherwise it's all layed out.

Oils must be of these quality levels:

API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM(excluding SM/EC), SN(excluding SN/RC)

ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3

ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2,C3,C4

and be of these physiochemical properties:

Sulfated ash 1.2% max

Phosphorus content between .08% and .12% max

evap. loss 20% max

HT/HS 2.9 min

and, they're allowed to shear out of grade to the following kinematic viscosities:

XW-30 can go down to 9cSt
XW-40 can go down to 12cSt
XW-50 can go down to 15cSt
all other grades must stay in grade

And of course there are definitions for the frictional characteristics of the oils. MA2 offers the highest level of friction. MB offers the lowest level and not recommended for wet clutches. MA1 is the low friction side of the MA spec.

Very fascinating reading.
_________________________
Quaker State across the board.

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#3533675 - 11/09/14 12:12 PM Re: JASO MA-2 [Re: Pako]
volodymyr Offline


Registered: 09/13/14
Posts: 444
Loc: Switzerland
Hello everyone,

If I understand correctly, JASO MA2 specification has been designed quite recently for bikes with catalytic converter. The specification is dated 2006.

Since it contains less phosphors to protect catalytic converters it may actually do less "engine wear protection" than JASO MA1.

I am correct in my assumptions?

The reason I am asking is because I am currently using CASTROL POWER 1 RACING 4T 10W-40 which is JASO MA2. However I see a nice appealing prices for Valvoline SynPower 4T 10W-40 which is JASO MA.

Since my bike does not have catalytic converter I am wondering if I can get a better anti wear protection if I switch from JASO MA2 to JASO MA.
_________________________
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i, Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W40 (SM,MA2)
2010 Nissan Qashqai 2.0, Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 (A3/B4,MB 229.5,502.00/505.00)

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