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Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR #1819491 03/16/10 01:11 PM
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BigTallV Offline OP
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Hi. My first UOA. Just learning the site, so take a breath and go easy on me please.

Mobil 1 5W-30 with AC Delco PF-41 Filter
2009 Saturn Outlook XR with 3.6L VVT DI engine, owned vehicle since new.

6393KM (4000 Miles) on oil, approximately 3 months of winter driving though this winter wasn't much of one. Healthy mix of highway and suburb driving bias is to more highway mileage. Vehicle has 19839KM on it (~12,400 Miles). No top-up oil. No mechanical work. Prior oil change was same oil and filter combo.

Silicon = 16
Sodium = 16
Potassium = 3
Iron = 101
Chrome = 3
Lead = 1
Copper = 14
Tin = 0
Aluminum = 8
Nickel = 0
Silver = 0
Titanium = 0
Boron = 51
Phosphorous = 693
Zinc = 832
Calcium = 2330
Barium = 0
Magnesium = 14
Molybdenum = 103
Varadium = 0
Antimony = 0
Lithium = 1
Berylium = 0

Visc 40C cSt = 50.1R
Visc 100C cSt = 8.91R
Fuel % = 2.80R

TBN = 5.85

Some other notes:
OLM = 43% remaining

Vehicle does see use of 'remote start' during winter months, so some excess idling. This is the DI engine, there has been some talk on the Saturn Outlook and Acadia boards about vehicle tuning from factory is a little rich.

Lab used was Fluid Life Corporation in Brantford, Ontario. Their new oil sample was from 10 years ago, so I am not going to bother putting that in here.

Any alarm bells or red flags? The lab reports Iron, Viscosity and Fuel dilution. But this is a fairly new vehicle with winter idling and DI fuel delivery.

My plan is to do another UOA and also send in a new unopened bottle of Mobil 1 5W30 to the lab to get an updated VOA.

Your thoughts, pointers, hints and comments would be appreciated. Many thanks in advance (to all).

/BTV

Last edited by BigTallV; 03/16/10 01:18 PM.

'14 Chevrolet Volt 1.4L - 48K KM/30K Mi
'05 Pontiac Pursuit 2.2L - 116K KM/73K Mi-PP 5W30 & Wix 57082
'98 Mazda Protege SE 1.5L - 111K KM/69K Mi
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: BigTallV] #1819551 03/16/10 01:49 PM
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21Rouge Offline
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Another somewhat puzzling report for one of these Lambda DI engines.

BigTall, here are some consecutive UOAs

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1680635

for the same engine as yours with the last UOA very close in mileage to the OCI you have shown here
.

Similar OCI, same engine allow one to make direct UOA comparisons. This is when one starts to see how a repository of UOAs can be worthwhile.

For example of all the wear #s it is the amount of iron that stands out in this UOA. With almost 20k km/12k miles in total on this car one would expect this iron # to be much less than 100.

43% on your OLM in 3 months with less than 4k miles seems like reasonably severe service i.e winter idling? short trips?

And maybe this implied severe service explains the almost 3% fuel dilution.

(FWIW I think your oil filter isnt a PF-41 but rather the PF-48)



Last edited by 21Rouge; 03/16/10 01:50 PM.
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: 21Rouge] #1819566 03/16/10 01:55 PM
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addyguy Offline
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Is that Fe number right?

If so, your idling and resulting fuel dilution is causing major problems...I know 'some' of it is break in, but not that much!


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 153k miles.
Castrol GTX 5W-20; Motomaster MPH 9688

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: addyguy] #1819581 03/16/10 02:06 PM
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shpankey Offline
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Wow, I knew the Iron would be high (M1 5w30 is typically) but my gosh.


06 VW Jetta TDI, M1 5w40 TDT
01 GMC Jimmy, 196k mi Pennzoil Ultra 5w30, Pure 1 oil filter
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: 21Rouge] #1819594 03/16/10 02:17 PM
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BigTallV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Another somewhat puzzling report for one of these Lambda DI engines.

BigTall, here are some consecutive UOAs

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1680635

for the same engine as yours with the last UOA very close in mileage to the OCI you have shown here
.

Similar OCI, same engine allow one to make direct UOA comparisons. This is when one starts to see how a repository of UOAs can be worthwhile.

For example of all the wear #s it is the amount of iron that stands out in this UOA. With almost 20k km/12k miles in total on this car one would expect this iron # to be much less than 100.

43% on your OLM in 3 months with less than 4k miles seems like reasonably severe service i.e winter idling? short trips?

And maybe this implied severe service explains the almost 3% fuel dilution.

(FWIW I think your oil filter isnt a PF-41 but rather the PF-48)




Thanks for the UOA link on that Traverse (er... Lambda).

Yes, a typo on my part. PF48 is correct.

OLM was around 43% if i recall correct. I do make use of remote start during winter months and certainly we have some short trips.

There has been some speculation on SaturnOutlook and Acadia forums about the engine tuning to be on the rich side. Note that the exhaust tips are soot covered (even shortly after acquiring new from the dealer). My '05 Pontiac Pursuit is almost 5 years old now and is just getting to a soot covered state. So I'm thinking it's DI fuel delivery/tuning and possibly the winter idling.

Next OCI should validate the dilution as I am primarily highway and practically zero idling on the current oil. Hope is it was just due to winter idling.

My hope is to catch any potential internal issues and in the same stroke get to a happy state with proper (optimal) duration OCI.

Thanks for your info.


'14 Chevrolet Volt 1.4L - 48K KM/30K Mi
'05 Pontiac Pursuit 2.2L - 116K KM/73K Mi-PP 5W30 & Wix 57082
'98 Mazda Protege SE 1.5L - 111K KM/69K Mi
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: addyguy] #1819606 03/16/10 02:26 PM
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BigTallV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: addyguy
Is that Fe number right?

If so, your idling and resulting fuel dilution is causing major problems...I know 'some' of it is break in, but not that much!


Don't blink, but yes, it's one-hundred-and-one (101).

I don't know if it's due to engine break-in, or a "problem". I've been reading about some Lambda's having stretched timing chains (on the VVT engine).

So ambition is to get a fresh VOA done by the same lab, and at the same time submit my second UOA and try to establish if there's an issue lurking (or not).

BTW, thanks for your posts on Toromont Labs. I was considering them but am not close enough to pickup/dropoff. Princess Auto has prepaid sample kits (Series 1) for Fluid Life Corp. So I decided to go that route. The folks there have been pretty good to me thus far.


'14 Chevrolet Volt 1.4L - 48K KM/30K Mi
'05 Pontiac Pursuit 2.2L - 116K KM/73K Mi-PP 5W30 & Wix 57082
'98 Mazda Protege SE 1.5L - 111K KM/69K Mi
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: BigTallV] #1819720 03/16/10 04:05 PM
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21Rouge Offline
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Originally Posted By: BigTallV

Visc 40C cSt = 50.1R

Lab used was Fluid Life Corporation in Brantford, Ontario.


How much did this UOA cost? It is good that this company does do the visc at 40C. thumbsup

Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: BigTallV] #1819826 03/16/10 05:37 PM
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CATERHAM Offline
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Hopefully the current session with "zero idling" corrects the fuel dilution and high iron problem.

I too am interested in the cost of the UOA from this lab?


-'74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50 & VSOT
-'96 BMW 328i, 50/50 TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40
-'94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20
-'18 Tesla Model 3 - FF diff' oil
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: CATERHAM] #1819873 03/16/10 06:17 PM
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CATERHAM Offline
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Cost of the kit through Princess Auto is $26.99.


-'74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50 & VSOT
-'96 BMW 328i, 50/50 TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40
-'94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20
-'18 Tesla Model 3 - FF diff' oil
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: CATERHAM] #1819998 03/16/10 08:02 PM
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21Rouge Offline
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Hopefully the current session with "zero idling" corrects the fuel dilution and high iron problem.


I find it very hard to believe that this triple digit Fe # can be attributable to winter idling (assuming that the actual Fe count is correct smirk)

Last edited by 21Rouge; 03/16/10 08:03 PM.
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: BigTallV] #1820063 03/16/10 08:57 PM
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baddrummerboyy Offline
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I am glad I don't use mobil 1 5w-30 anymore.

Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: 21Rouge] #1820450 03/17/10 08:05 AM
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BigTallV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: BigTallV

Visc 40C cSt = 50.1R

Lab used was Fluid Life Corporation in Brantford, Ontario.


How much did this UOA cost? It is good that this company does do the visc at 40C. thumbsup


$26.99 CAD plus tax for "Series 1" test which is suitable for gasoline engine. You can get the test kit off the shelf at Princess Auto (http://www.princessauto.com/hydraulics/oil/oil-analysis/8285835-engine-oil-analysis-kit) or buy a box of 10 sample kits from Fluid Life Corporation. It's a pre-paid method.

TBN test is *not* included. I had to shell out for that.


'14 Chevrolet Volt 1.4L - 48K KM/30K Mi
'05 Pontiac Pursuit 2.2L - 116K KM/73K Mi-PP 5W30 & Wix 57082
'98 Mazda Protege SE 1.5L - 111K KM/69K Mi
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: BigTallV] #1820456 03/17/10 08:11 AM
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BigTallV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: BigTallV
...OLM = 43% remaining...


[EDIT] Sorry folks, I found my maintenance log this morning and the OLM reading was in fact 57%. I *though* it was 43% but my maintenance logs don't lie, I do the notes up while the QL shop does the work.

Again, restating OLM as 57%.

/BTV


'14 Chevrolet Volt 1.4L - 48K KM/30K Mi
'05 Pontiac Pursuit 2.2L - 116K KM/73K Mi-PP 5W30 & Wix 57082
'98 Mazda Protege SE 1.5L - 111K KM/69K Mi
Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: BigTallV] #1820458 03/17/10 08:13 AM
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21Rouge Offline
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Originally Posted By: BigTallV
[EDIT] Sorry folks, I found my maintenance log this morning and the OLM reading was in fact 57%. I *though* it was 43% but my maintenance logs don't lie,


An easy mistake to make as 57 + 43 = 100.

Re: Mobil 1 5W30 4000M/6400KM 2009 Saturn Outlook XR [Re: baddrummerboyy] #1820461 03/17/10 08:18 AM
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BigTallV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: baddrummerboyy
I am glad I don't use mobil 1 5w-30 anymore.


Not to go off topic, but I'm curious as to why you switched? I went from dino to M1 synthetic because I thought it to be an excellent choice. There seems to be much support for it on this forum.

The reason(s) I selected Mobil-1 was for quicker protection on cold morning startup, ambition to extend OCI duration, and have the best protection possible for the life of the vehicle. Plan is to keep this one for the long haul.


'14 Chevrolet Volt 1.4L - 48K KM/30K Mi
'05 Pontiac Pursuit 2.2L - 116K KM/73K Mi-PP 5W30 & Wix 57082
'98 Mazda Protege SE 1.5L - 111K KM/69K Mi
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